Electric Tractors....Battery Cars

Wild Bill Caldwell · Mar 21, 2009

Some "HANDS" on here have tremendous knowledge and wisdom ...Help Me out on this, one question is if an alternator is in workin' order and turnin' fast enough , does it produce electricity? So for a battery run car, why not drop a "FITH WHEEL?" down while the car is movein', 5th wheel turns an alternator, keeps the battery charged? Is there a reason no body has went in this direction

JDemaris · Mar 21, 2009

Yeah, and it takes power and energy to turn that alternator. So, there is no gain unless you're going to use power that's already going to waste. That's the main idea of hybrid cars - instead of wasting momentum (inertia of motion) by using the brakes and turing it into wasted heat- it's directed to turn a dynamo instead.

Thack · Mar 21, 2009

Just go buy a 1976 Plymouth Feather Duster, they got 20 city/36 highway. To bad motown can"t build them like that anymore.

John T · Mar 21, 2009

Yes, a working alternator produces energy if its being made to turn. Far as I know some of the Hybrids ALREADY use the turning wheels (effectively) when coasting and/or braking to produce energy as they effectively turn an alternator or equivalent type of device. Similar, braking can take place by putting a load on the rotating wheels but instead of it all being wasted as heat energy in friction brakes, its converted into electrical energy (sort of like the wheels run an alternator in laymans terms) to replenish the batteries.

Of course, theres no free lunch and energy isnt created or destroyed, simply changed in form. The kinetic energy (1/2 MV squared) an auto has when say coasting can be converted into electrical energy via an alternator to charge a battery but remember that creates a load on the wheels turning which can be used as brakes. Similar it takes energy to get a car upon top a hill but then it has potential energy which can be recovered as the car coats abck down the hill and the wheels turn an alternator

Yep, you can hang a fifth wheel outside a car n let it run an alternator but dont forget it takes additional HP to overcome the extra load to tuen that extra fifth wheel. Same way it takes engine HP to run that belt driven alternator remember and it takes energy regardless if using a fifth wheel or a belt off the engine.

The hybrids do it in a simpler more efficient way,,,,,a dc motor/generator can turn the wheels if youre putting battery energy INTO IT buttttttttt if youre coasting then the cars momentum is turning the DC motor/generator so it puts energy BACK INTO THE BATTERY Plussssssssss it can act as a brake versus wasitng the energy as heat in friction braking.....

Got it???????? Good question

John T

Wild Bill Caldwell · Mar 21, 2009

Minnie joey...My Mother was a LADY....You sir are a coward and a punk.....IF WE WERE FACE TO FACE YOU WOULD BE A DAMM SIGHT MORE CAREFULL WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT MY MOTHER.....good to know you are one of the "yo mother kind of trash"

Wild Bill Caldwell · Mar 21, 2009

I Have never seen a hybrib or elec. car that I know of...I do have a few things I have invented , some toolin' and some guns and cartridges I have designed (check the net for .224 Zipperer )(Find an old issue of American Handgunner to see write up on the .224Z )
So what You are sayin' is it is not practical to have a wheel deivein' the alternator? I can't help but wonder How much a H.P. a wheel would need....My thoughts have been, an efficent engine movein' the car at times, when the batteries are charged, retract the wheel, run on batteries untill batteries need chargein' Go back to engine and fifth wheel.
I entended runnin this by the HANDS on here....seems all I did was was bring minne joey out from under his cow pile

G. L. Perry · Mar 21, 2009

At one time company's were working on a flywheel that would spin real fast, usually laying flat, say under seat area that ran when car moved, then when car stopped for signs or such, stayed spinning and produced some charging, then also was the force needed to start car moving again when pedal was pressed to go. This way the engine could be shut down more often when stopped and not needed to propel car. Biggest problem was finding material that would stay together for fast spinning wheel. I think the company's know what they are doing, biggest drawback is battery size, time in use, and simple charging by plug-in.

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

Thanks for your answer. I had a general idea of how hybrids work, I now have a better understanding of how a hybrid works. Going back to science in middle school over 30 years ago, we made simple step up transformers for DC by using a square piece of steel with x number of windings on one side and 2x windings on the out put side. If I remember, we went from 6 volts in to 12 volts out. Am I off on my memory or is that possible? If it is, I'm sure there is a reason that it can't be done to double the out put of a hybrid. Would the problem be double the volts, half the amps?

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

Ignore Joe, We all know MN Joe is an outstanding bible thumper that thinks Santa is Satan and his dog is god.

I thought your question had merit and the discussion has been very informational to those of us that would like to know more. I personally wasn't born knowing it all.

RN · Mar 21, 2009

Maybe check latest GMC semiHybred bus or the English Ford Transit battery boost or the VW diesel hybreds transporter. A motor/dynamo that can act as motor or charging generator on on axle takes energy of braking and recharges battery when stopping, acts as motor on initial starting. GMC claims 8-10% better economy in stop and go city driving for large bus. Regular Diesel engine geared for drive also, handles 30-50 mph cruise and also does some battery recharge. The European Ford and VW cargo carriers similar setup- also in some areas engine is shut off at idle or left off in high pollution areas. Some of the current Hybreds cars have the booster electric motor/generator geared to engine, electric used for low speed start boost, engine is about 30% smaller than would otherwise be in the car body, battery pack is a 200-400lb Nicad short range unit- but around town mileage is impressive. Cost as noted is ridiculous. Dual drive- engine handles one axle, battery/motor/dynamo handles other axle has some weight penalaty but is basicly what GMC city busses have been using past 10 years- works in straight forward manner, uses common parts, is affordable.
As for a eletric tractor? GE had a garden tractor a few years back, no gas engine, basic forklift drive train repacckaged. worked fairly good for lawnmowing and light garden work, needed recharge after 4-6 hours overnight- but since it wasn"t in most cases travelling more than 500foot from garage and operating constantly was almost worth it"s double than gas engine competion price.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2009

Well put, Im glad someone else can see him for who he is. A bible thumper. means he CANT THINK FOR HIMSELF.

trucker40 · Mar 21, 2009

I was reading about trains one time and they have something kind of like that.It doesnt charge a battery but it gives more power to the electric generator from a set of wheels that are turning on a car being pulled,to help the train generator somehow.Maybe if you let down the wheel and it charges the battery plus gives your motor some more spark to pull hills or do burn outs or something?

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2009

All that matters is that you know your a bible thumper, you admitt to it, Nothing wrong with that if it works for you. Im not a bible thumper, that works fine for me. good day sir!

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

At least he has an idea, where is yours? Electric may have it's place. I'm certainly open to new ideas and ways of doing things. I've seem some good products that started out as less than great ideas. Revision and development can lead a long way. I'd rather chat with someone that has something on the table than someone who sits on the sidelines tearing them down.

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

Joe, you're a pro at being a con.

rgvtx · Mar 21, 2009

I'm not a Bible thumper, but I am a bible reader. Of course everytime I see a post from MiNibrained Joe I want to get out my baseball bat and become a head thumper, and I think he's got a rather large target to aim at. Mostly full of water I'm sure.
Hopefully Kim will be able to finally get rid of this guy once and for all as long as enough folks complain to her about his idiotic rambling.
Good ridance MiNibrain Joe.

Anybody seen him on Yourab**b yet?
MN Joe proving his IQ on youtube

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2009

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,and maybe you should just start your own talk show Dr Joe.!!!!

buickddeere · Mar 21, 2009

You are kidding...........right? I hope you were kidding. And you were not talking about regenerative braking either.
And people wonder why America is falling behind in the world.

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

With carbon credit coming into play, I doubt that steam is going to have any future. I'll let the experts refine electric/ hybrids as I think they have more upside.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2009

He is a troll.Only here to annoy others.

John T · Mar 21, 2009

WELL, Youre gettin there. First of all for basic transformer action YOU NEED AC (or at least some pulsing/switching) NOT PURE DC. So if a transformer had a two to one turns ratio and you applied 6 volts AC on one side you would get double that or 12 volts AC out the other side and vice versa....

YES youre thinkin right, a transformer is a passive less then 100% efficient device as theres inefficiencies and heat losses going on. If you put energy in one side, you get less out the other side, so although it can step up voltage it cant create or increase energy so the volts x amps x time in on one side wouldnt put out as much volts x amps x time out the otehr cuz some energy is robbed as heat. AS far as output current, it remains V/R buttttttttt if you try to pull too much current then the voltage drops..

Fun discussion you started, feel free to ask any questions butttttttttttt remember we cant teach nor would you be expected to understand here in a paragraph what takes books n years of study to explain

John T Long retired EE

Janicholson · Mar 21, 2009

Simply put the generator drags the car more than it puts out. A transformer changes voltage, but looses total power. Thus there is neither research, nor any reason to go in that direction. It is like picking yourself up by the top of your boots. It would actually take a miracle. Good question, ignore those below who find people to attack. Perpetual Motion is the formal term for it, it is fun to Google. JimN

RN · Mar 21, 2009

This is getting funny. solar powered electric vehicle like Ford used in Australia sun power race? Looked like a giant pumpkin seed but solar panels had it doing 35mph over Australian desert in bright sun. Arizona and some other southern states allowing NEV- Neighborhood electric Vehicles- have a modified Yamaha golf cart with roof of solar panels to trickle charge battery pack- the retirees that do 10-15 miles a day and let it sit in sun recharge maybe once a week overnight. 5-10 miles and sunday off has maybe once a month sometimes every 2 months to recharge. Wisconsin electrics don"t get used much in winter and summer sun means once a week overnight recharge needed mid week.
Steam power? Get old Foden truck and go around the world burning whatever is handy- was done in mid 60s, truck is now in English motor museum and gets paraded couple times a year according to 2004 article. Jay Leno had a Stanley or White steamer he drove on street couple years back- fire dept came out after him. RN.

buickddeere · Mar 21, 2009

It just amazes me that people don't understand the basic laws of physics, let alone never heard tell of the 1st,2nd or 3rd law of thermodynamics.
The amount of time, money and people conned conned into investing in perpetual motion devices is a crime.
Somebody mentioned "lifting one's self up by their bootstraps" . Says it as well as any.

Bret4207 · Mar 21, 2009

It amazes me you aren't working for NASA or something T40.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 21, 2009

What about the car invention that uses extremely high air pressure for power like 3000 P.S.I. I thought they were starting to build them.Small,light,quiet and it goes an avarage commute.Just plug it into a high pressure charger at home.

teddy52food · Mar 21, 2009

John: follow me through on this & give me an answer, please. If you take a wire and loop it around a post some distance away and put x watts into one end, you will get a little less out because of line loss. Right? Then you take the magnet wire and coil it to make a magnet and when you put x watts into it you will get a little less out but the coil warms up so the heat plus what is coming out equals what you are putting in. Right? Then when you break contact the field collapses and you get an induced wattage in the wire.Right? Isn't this free energy????? My E- Mail is open.

Germ · Mar 21, 2009

Joe, as you pointed out, steam can be made through nuclear reaction. Now, with all the auto accidents, you are will to still even entertain the thought (and in your mind, that thought would be awful lonely) of nuclear in an auto. Get real.

tlak · Mar 22, 2009

I thought that was how the some of the Hybrids worked. On braking or coasting the wheels were attached to the generating system and charged the batteries.

Germ · Mar 22, 2009

I don't think we have 100-200 years to wait. That's a real practical solution to today's problems. Geez Joe, I don't think a lot of you, but I did expect better.

buickddeere · Mar 22, 2009

teddy you still don't get it and don't try quoting E=mc2 again either.
Go back and study the three laws of thermodynamics.
Watching Star Trek and wishing really hard with good intentions make no difference to how the Almighty built the universe.

Electric Tractors....Battery Cars

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