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OT School budget/taxes

N

n8terry

Member
Locally our k-12 schools are cutting programs to balance the budget. The administration is opposed to cut anything related to athletics. The newspaper had a poll and it came out almost evenly split. I don't have any facts, but it sure seems that there is a lot of money spent by their athletic program. Our schools travel 300 miles to play basketball, football etc.

Personally, I think athletic programs ought to be cut, or have parents pay a significant amount to have their child compete.

Do schools in your area charge parents?
 
Be careful to cut that which is in the general fund, some Athletic programs are actually 95% self financing. Fees ticket sales, bake sales, and business alumni support. If the regular general funds are poured in, cutting may be very useful. Please do not cut the high cost content of Technology Education, or sciences. We will be needing the graduates to actulally work to ad value as we back out of imported everything. JimN
 
I don't like to go there. I my state they are talking about extending the school year . but they only go to school from 8:00 am to 2:30 PM . I think I remember going from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM when I went to school. The teachers have it so rough teaching 5 hours a day And not working summers. As for Sports if they would do away with them it would be better for the students only have interschool sports .
 
Teachers only teach 5 hours a day in your area? Sign me up, I will gladly take that job. Around here the school day is 7 hours plus lunch for a 7 1/2 hour school day, at least for the students. Teachers are required to be at school 1/2 hour before the students arrive and typically have meetings after school for an hour or more. Go home and grade papers for a couple of hours. It seems to me that I work closer to 10 or 12 hours per day than 5. Now if it would help I would gladly go a little longer in the classroom but put your self in the students position. It is tough enough to listen to someone lecture for 7 hours, do you think 10 would be more productive. At a certain point the learning stops and it becomes a body taking up space, much like a sponge can only absorb so much. It's the same way with the summers off, it's more because the kids need the break than the teachers wanting time off. I would work year round teaching if I could, I enjoy doing it. Untill you put your self in the position of the students and the teacher though you should probably not rush to judgement about the short easy days.

Rocky in MO
 
Typically the athletic programs off set at least some if not all of their costs. At the college level they even become big money makers for the school. Times are tight every where, hang in there though, we will all work through this.

Rocky in MO
 
We have a pay to play, was $400 a sport and I think it's been cut to $200 a sport. It gets expensive with 2 kids playing 2 sports a piece last year.

We do have very good parental support for our athletic program and a great booster club. We also have a private sports foundation that has raised the funds to keep the program going along with installing new sports turf for the football field, a new field house/ weight room, new tennis courts, new softball field and practice field for soccer. We are not a wealthy district at all, probably closer to lower middle class, but the parents are very involved and the community is real supportive as well.

I think sports programs have to be evaluated on what's best for the students. Sports keeps many in school and off the streets and it gives the other students something to watch. Our sports teams have an agregate GPA of 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. Many really good kids in the programs and some great coaches as well. I'd hate to see what cutting sports would in our district.
 
I was looking at the summer courses at the University of Vermont, with the idea that I might take a couple of courses there this summer to get a taste of UVM. I've found the tuition is more than double for some of the same classes also offered at Community College. $391 per credit for in-state! and that is with a 15% discounted summer rate.

In UVM's defense, they offer hundreds of courses that community college does not. They have lots of courses that sounded mighty interesting, such even a course titled "Mafia&Capitalism-Russian Style", but I question if it is worth the $1,173 in tuition for the three credit course, plus books, and gasoline to get there since I would not be living on campus. There are quite a few courses that I question if they are worth their cost.

Technology is different. I can see the high costs of that, but they sure don't discount the simple book learning classes, instead all colleges charge a flat per-credit rate so a basket weaving class is the same price as a rocket science class. True, I am sure they use the money they collect to make the rocket science class more affordable to those taking it, but it makes a whole lot more sense to take the english and math courses at a community college before applying to a university.
 
Germ,
In our high school district the surest way to raise your GPA is to be a good athelete. The trouble is many flunk out of college or have to go to Jr.Col and take remedial classes in order to get into a 4 year program.
 
Rocky,

I think that the demands of teaching vary greatly based on the subject area taught, the school system's operation, and the teacher's dedication.

My wife just retired from teaching high school and college English. She has always been a tough, motivated, devoted teacher. She too often worked 12 hour days. But her situation was often very different from many (most?) other teachers.

Although she was a hard worker, the fact is that most schools offered study hall duty and "prep" time during the day. She seldom taught more than four or five hours per day of classroom instruction. Furthermore, many of the teachers that she taught with over the years did just enough to get by.

I guess that the teaching profession is just like most other professions. There are industrious, successful teachers who earn their pay and deserve more, and there are also slackers who should have been released from their jobs long ago.

Thanks for your service to the kids and community where you are located.

Tom in TN
 
Let's see 10-12 hours per day times 188 school days equal 1880-2256 hours plus off June, July, August, plus "Holiday" break of 10-14 days, plus spring break 7 days. Now convince me of that 10-12 hours is EVERY day. I admire the work you have the patience to do but don't tell how hard it is, dating a teacher and have several plus admin people in the family. A 40 hour week is 2080 hours per year, with 1 or maybe 2 weeks off.
 
Most of the districts in this area expect the atheletic programs to pay their own way to varying degrees. Fairly typical is the school system picks up 50,000 or so of transportation and a couple of hundred thousand for salaries. The rest is up to the parents and booster clubs. That may seem like huge numbers but, at 3 bucks a mile for a school bus, 14 varsity sports, and all the jv and other stuff it doesnt take long to eat up that money in a hurray.

I used to be real anti-sports programs but looking at the big picture I see how many kids would be out causing trouble if they werent there. Plus, its better than the kid coming home and watching tv. To me, a quarter million or so out of a 30 million dollar budget doesnt seem too bad. What irks me is the millions of dollars in bond issues for extravogent buildings and every administrator having to have an assistant and a secretary to actually do their work. Plain buildings work as well as fancy ones.
 
I think teachers at my local high school average about $85,000/year. They teach a maximum of 5 classes a day with many of them teaching less.

Let me check my math.... 5 hours each day for 180 days is 900 hours. If they average $85,000/ year, that would only be about $94.00/hour.

Is that considered good pay? Check out the salaries of Illinois teachers at www.thechampion.org
Illinois Teacher Pay
 
Funny I'm off during the summer but none of you mentioned that I don't get paid during the summer either.
Instead starting in mid July I'm there coaching every day. And my coaches salary is only for the fall season. I'm also still coaching my fall sport the rest of the year for no pay.
When practice is done I've spent the last several years working with a group of kids who are building a solar boat which we have entered in a contest each of those years. By the way that's for no pay either.
Their talking about cutting our salary this year and California just raised my taxes. The largest tax increase in the USA ever.
I have an Bachelors degree and a Masters degree that I paid for. I have to pay the state for the privilege of teaching.
I've taken countless hours of training on my time for no pay to learn the CAD programs I teach. They are ever evolving and I have to stay up with them.
I'm at school before 7:00AM everyday and rarely get home before 4:00PM.
Not to mention countless kids who cause problems and you get no help from their parents.
Class size is 34, you try keeping that many of Mother's little darlings on task for an hour.
I've been doing this since 1974. Retirement is still at least 5 more years for me if I want to have enough money to live on.
I still enjoy the job but some of you need to know what it's really like.
And some of you think I'm overpaid.
 
Wow!! Minnesota teachers in the rural part of the state have a long way to go to catch up. Most would be beyond ecstatic if they got 1/2 that amount in their paycheck. I know the hourly rate of pay (the rate all teachers are paid for duties they perform beyond their contracted times) for teachers in our local district is $22 per hour. I also know the daily pay for people with a 4 year college degree who are willing to be substitute teachers is $110 per day (must put in a minimum of 7 hours to get the full $110). Sure don't have trouble with too many people signing up for that job! My wife is a union representative for her local district. Teachers here, on average, are making just less than $40,000 per year for 180 contracted days.
 
Have to remember though, those times you listed off for breaks, and the summer months are not days "off". Teachers are contracted to teach for x amount of days. They also only get paid for X amount of days. In our district the number is 180 days. If the teachers choose to spread their 180 days of pay over a 12 month period, they may do so. They are still only paid for 180 days though. As far as time put in every day, I know the minimum amount put in on a daily basis of our local teachers is 9 hours at the school building (most are 7 a.m. to 4 p.m.)and I'd have to believe many put in more time at home because I see them leaving with papers to correct and teaching manuals to study over for the next day's lessons.
 
Our district does charge a small fee, (I can't remember the amount right off) but I had a conversation with our administration not to long ago when our district was making financial cuts about why the sports programs didn't seem to face as many, or as severe of cuts as other areas. The answer I got was pretty straight forward and honest. The sports programs are what keep the students in the schools, especially at the high school level. In Minnesota, any student can open enroll to any other school district that is willing to accept them into their district. Along with the student goes the federal money that is allocated to the districts on a per pupil basis. If 40 students opt to leave a small Minnesota school district and attend school in a different school district because the sports programs have been cut, that just could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and put's that district under because they lost forty students (and the money) from not having sporting events for students to participate in. In a nutshell, districts truly CAN'T afford NOT to have full athletic programs for students to participate in.
 
Our school system in Nebraska already sucks 70% of the tax dollars out of our property taxes. The local district has decided to add girls softball next year. It's time to cut back on several items, including sports. It used to be, during football season, the girls travelled with us to play volleyball against the same school we were playing in football, then again in basketball the same thing. Most of the time it worked out fine. Now, the schedules are mostly against that type of thing happening.
Schools need to trim budgets, just like everyone else. I have set foot in the local school TWICE in the past 25 years (both for graduations), and haven't set foot in my high school since I graduated. I have ZERO connection with either (or any) school. I get flyers every month, telling me all about the lunch schedule and everything else going on at the school. It's the first thing in the trash that day - unopened. How much could the school save in paper and postage alone if they sent those mailings (that are several pages long) out to ones who wanted it instead of canvassing the entire district?
People need to take more responsibility for the education of their child, instead of expecting everyone else to foot the entire bill.
 

Has anyone ever set down and figured what it costs them (based on the taxes you pay) per child per year for the kid to attend school? Children of Soldiers and some Civilian employees are able to attend the American schools here free. But I just had a guy (who is not eligable) tell me that it would cost $15k per child per year. I about fell over. Is that outrageous, or have I just led a sheltered life?

Dave
 
I think that ALL sports in the schools should be cut, Massively-----The local governments suck down way to much taxpayer money. Kids are in School to learn-----Shocking comment there huh.

The sports is all BS........If the kids want to play sports his or her parents should foot the whole bill.....Period.
 
First I would say, I too, think way too much emphasis is placed on sports in school, and not near enough on education. However, some sports in school actually do pay for themselves. Just go to a Friday night football game, get a head count and multiply the head count by the price of the ticket.

Beaver stadium at Penn State has 100,000 seats and average ticket is $45-$50 (student ticket price is about half but there are only 10-20,000 student seats) That's in the neighborhood of $5,000,000 per home game, and that doesn't count parking, concessions, etc. The place is a mad house and I avoid State College during those weeks.

I know a high school game will not bring in that income but, you might be surprised if you do the math. Now sports like cross country, track, softball, tennis etc. probably do not bring in enough to support themselves.
 
Our schools do charge to play but by far the school infrastructure still provides the bulk of the money. It is a rip off for us to paying for any of this. I don't even think I ought to be paying for other peoples kids education. Schools are ruining our goverment with all the hy-jacking of our money. No polititcian ever says enough to schools.
 
true, you do a lot for free. It still does not justify the costs of sports to the community tax payers. Sports could be privatized just the same.
 
Our P.E. teachers are labeled Special Ed. so they can funnel money from the disabled children. The disabled children, from various sources, bring a large amount of funding with them per student. In doing this the actual Special Ed teachers that work with the disabled have to buy crayons and other needed items out of their own pocket, and they get hand me down computers or whatever.
Another decision was they decided to build this exorbitant stadium instead of the advanced technology school. Nobody comes and rents this stadium, it just parents paying $2-5 to watch their own child lose. Lets see, trade jobs or high school football star.
 
That"s not the case here. In a graduating class of around 300, we have several of the football team going to decent colleges, Harvard and Cornell to name a couple and they are going on academic scholarships, not atheletic scholarships. Small school where the teachers care more about learning and sports are an added benefit.
 
7 in the morning till 4 in the afternoon. Wow. You poor overworked thing you. Don't forget your dues to the Union that comes out of your paycheck, that Union that will defend a pedophile teacher to the death and that keeps driving costs up and up. Like people told me, you chose your profession, so quit whining about it.
 
Sports and Art and to a lesser extent music have no place in the classroom. Since I'm being raped by the Gov't that steals my money I think it's perfectly acceptable to say that. The construction at our school never stops. they always need this and that. The Lotto was supposed to pay for education, but our taxes keep going up. Meanwhile my wife, a teacher, spends hundreds each year buying supplies for the classroom and clothes for the welfare rat kids.

Yup, we've got a good thing going on here in our school systems.
 
Darned socialist/welfare school system. Everyone should pay the full cost of their childrens education?

Why have em if you can't afford em?

j/k to make a point.
 
Ya I was going to mention the union thing also but did not want to take it that far, but since you mentioned it I gotta agree with ya 100%.
 
"welfare rat kids"

Interesting description, ask your wife which one of these kids she hates like you do.
You're above these welfare rats, do you know any, if they get an education, they might not be welfare rats.
Where are you in the food chain, don't get any of that Farmer welfare, or military welfare, or maybe something like WIC for some of the grandkids?
 
Very well said.

I used to think our athletic programs were a drag on the budget and that the jocks were "given" grades to they could be on the field for every game. Then, my oldest started to play soccer and I got involved. What an eye opener on how good most, not all, of the kids were. Most of the coaches are good role models as well. In the end, it comes back to the parents and how much effort they are willing to put into a program.
 
Education is expensive but what is really getting high is firefighter and police pensions. After twenty years they collect 80% for the rest of their lives, and we have to pay for it with our local taxes because the amount that they paid in is typically used up within the first five years. For every person in the station now, you are paying at least one other who used to hold that position and in a few more years you will be paying three people and then even four for each position.And this isn't even getting into the ones that go out on 100% disability.
 
Ok, so they are only paid for 180 days. No argument here. They still make more in a year than I do and I have to pay their salary.
 
The grass is always greener. Teachers don't work in summer, farmers don't work in winter. If teachers are so over paid and it is so easy, go for it. Try the easy life. Don't have a teaching degree? Go sub for a while. Get a taste of easy street and see how you like it.
 
Every time my taxes go up I have to do the same with less.It's time the schools and government start to do the same with less.If someone can't play sports,well,that's just the way it is.When will the schools learn the tax payers pockets are not bottomless money wells?
 
Schools that have GOOD athletic & performing arts programs have higher average ACT & SAT scores. The younger the students are involved in perfoming arts & organized athletics, the more the scores increase. Check districts in your area to see if this holds true. The key is good performing arts & athletics where exellence is demanded. A plus is if teachers are also coaches.
 
It's real simple and it's the same with any taxpayer funded entity. They threaten to cut whatever will effect the most people. No more complicated than that. You're not going to get more taxes from the majority if you threaten to do something that will only effect the minority.
 
Are any of you from SD? Now here's a state that doesn't fund education, though the powers that be will argue that. We rank at the bottom in teacher pay by a wide margin. School districts are constantly passing tax opt outs for more funding. We can build up capital outlay (building), yet can't have general funding for things like salaries and such. So schools get new football fields but can't pay the coach/teacher. Isn't that great. I've always thought if the school districts could use their funding where they need it most, they'd probably get by easier. Educating our youth is one of the most important things we can do. Some of you may disagree with me on that, but I bet you went to school. Someone helped you. As for the question of athletic funding, most schools don't have a fee, but more are starting to consinder some type of fee. When you bring up taxes you usually bring up controversy. People love their money.
 
Let us not forget that the cheerleading/dance team sponsor (PAID VOLUNTEER??), coaches/asst. coaches, drama/music teachers are all paid an hourly rate over their salary on the basis of hour they turn in. I'll babysit for $22 hour since I won't have to change to many diapers. When did $40,000/year become a poor salary ? Engineers starting salary=$26K, 5 years of HARD classes as opposed to art appreciation/childhood development. And tenure after 2 years so no matter how poorly you do your job it is nearly impossible to get fired.
 
I've got one kid involved in band at school. It's totally self funding (except for instructor salary and classroom space). Athletics is the same way. The instructors/coaches teach classes also so you can't even say that their salary is a drag on the budget.

Football actually funds many of the other sports, especially girls sports. Every sport has a booster club. Each club is expected to raise money for their sport to cover equipment, supplies, uniforms, etc. Even transportation costs (school buses, drivers, charters) are charged back to the individual sport budget.

The kids have to buy lots of their supplies/equiipment also. They do this either through fundraisers or the parents cut a check. It's their choice.

Like I said above, football is the cash cow that funds everything. But if you offer football, you have to offer a girl's sport that isn't totally self funding (federal law, title 9). So you can't even pick and choose which sports to offer. Basketball/volleyball facilities (gyms) are used for other school functions, assembly, plays, you name it, something is always going on.

And I don't buy into the argument that some here try to use. "If the parents didn't have to donate or fundraise for athletics, they would have more money to donate to education." Won't happen, parents view their taxes as paying for education.

So if you cut out athletics entirely at my kid's school, there would be a very minor impact on the budget actually used for education. And some of the athletic facilities that are also used for other purposes would go away.

Just my opinion.

slim
 
Not in MN. 3 year minimum before tenure, and if you aren't doing your job, see you later! MN is working very hard at meeting the "No Child Left Behind" legislation, and simply put, slacker teachers are not going to make districts meet that goal. They are ousted very quickly. There is no shortage of teachers here. Mosty vacancies have at least 400 applicants applying for the position.
Oh, I also never said $40,000 was a poor salary. I said teachers her have a long way to go to match $85,000 salary mentioned in a previous post.
Finally, I can't not comment on the ignorance of your statement regarding "babysitting". It would seem evident you have no understanding of educators do on a daily basis to prepare the next generation of American citizens.
 
I have no problem with parents paying a bit. Around here it"s mostly the parents but I think the schools do pay a bit. They should stop spending so much on the special ed kids and put that money somewhere useful like sports or as much as i don"t like the arts that would be better then the spec ed kids.
 
That may be, but that is no fault of a teacher. They don't set their wages and they don't dictate where their pay comes from. Public education is a system that has been in place in this country for well over a century. You may not like the fact that your tax dollars pay educators, but why fault them for it?
 
Ever seen some of the zombies that work there? I have higher expectations for my kids. There's a reason they are called Walmartians.
 
Slim,
Unless your district is very different, coaches receive a stipend for all extra curricular activity. If you can get a copy of the budget and are able to wade thru it, you might be surprised at expenditures. This information is supposed to be available to tax payers but is sometimes published in the semi weekly small townpaper in the district (this satisifies the legal requirement even though the circulation is minimal).
 
Not just sports: you make babies YOU pay for them to go to school. The religious schools in our area have a higher % going to college, less pregnancy/drug problems and higher ACT/SAT scores/graduation rate. If the parents had to pay maybe they would be a little more caring about the quality of education.
 
There is a lot of offset with school sports. Basketball in my area pays for it's self, not so much with Baseball and Soccer but the Boosters help and the kids do a lot of fund raising. Still, if there was a place to cut, extra curricular activities (that's not just sports) should be at the top of the list (do they really need new uniforms every year?).

As far a teacher pay goes. I'm married to a teacher and she works a lot. Not only is she correcting papers & planning almost every night she goes in on Sunday afternoon to get ready for the next week. This is not at all uncommon either, yes there are teachers that just get by but you are going to find those folks everywhere in any profession.

Oh and folks that rail on the profession because they get summer vacation, guess what, THEY DON'T GET PAID FOR IT. A teaching year in Maine is around 180 days, that's what they get paid for. My wife works a part time summer job as well. These figures of $85,000 are pretty crazy, around here that's upper admin pay, teachers with a lot of time might sniff half that.

One other thing, there's so many screwed up kids now you couldn't get me to step into a classroom period. I work in a school district (not with kids directly), I see it all the time, those folks earn they're pay and then some.

K
 
The welfare rats that beat their kids, don;t feed or clothe them but always have enough money for booze, porn and pot? Those welfare rats? Yeah Tlak, I am above them. As I said to you one time before- I adopted 2 kids and am trying to adopt another, all from the same welfare rat family, Dad has either 24 or 27 kids we know of. What have YOU ever done except look down that long abundant nose at the rest of us? My wife clothes these kids with her own money, makes sure they get fed and calls Social Services every time the come in beat up. What have YOU DONE bigmouth? You talk a lot but you do nothing but talk, do you?
 
Yep, you are right. Here it"s about $2,000 for the year. Hardly minimum wage when you figure the time they put into it.

slim
 
"THEY DON'T GET PAID FOR IT"

I don't know any that didn't know that their pay was prorated over 12 months and a lot specifically chose the profession for the summers off and the other extended holidays.
I noticed teachers talking in the hall during their planning period and others hard at work. I asked the one working during planning if she took any home and she said no.
40-50k isn't bad pay and they could go to work for some big corp at 100k and work 60-70 hrs wk. So everybody makes choices and in retrospect I would have went for the teaching profession for the days off.
 
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