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Who needs a CDL

J

john in la

Well-known Member
Location
What part of in La do you not understand
After reading some of the responses to the post below about CDL and trailers I figured I would give you guys a little quiz.
Lets see how you do. I will post a chart that shows how to determine if you need a CDL after I see some of your answers so you can see if you were right.

What driver does not need a CDL.
A) A single truck that weighs 27,000 lbs
B) A truck that weighs 19,000 lbs and a trailer that weighs 8,000 lbs... Total 27,000 lbs
C) A truck that weighs 16,000 lbs and a trailer that weighs 11,000 lbs... Total 27,000 lbs
D) A truck OR truck and trailer combo that weighs over 26,001 lbs but is only used to transport personal property.
E) A truck that weighs 10,000 lbs and a trailer that weighs 15,000 lbs... Total weight 25,000 lbs.

I will give you a hint and tell you 2 of the above drivers do not need a CDL.
 
A,C,D all need CDL. B does not because the trailer is less than 10,000 and does not count toward the combined GVW(at least in Ohio). E is less than 26,001 combined GVW.
 
I made a mistake, what is the registered weight when we pull into the scale with these trucks and trailers???? and are we hauling our stuff or other folks stuff??
 
It is not a trick question.
The weights listed are the GVWR of each unit not what it weighs at any said time.
If you think it matters if you are hauling your stuff or not note that in your answer.

Your answer will not be judged by me but it will be judged by the federal/state guildline for who needs a CDL.
 
the weight you are hauling never matters ever, just what the tags say on the truck and trailer, same as alway's, only when you get to the scale you can't be over that..
 
The worst part of all this is that anyone with a class A license can drive a 40 ft. motorhome on a bus chassy with 3 axles and tow a trailer with total length of 65 Ft.
One has to wonder about that especially if the guy is pushing 90.
Walt
 
Forgot a Farm vehicle can haul 44,000 lbs on a full size tractor trailer outfit with a farm license and all the driver needs is a class A with an endorsement that takes less than 5 minutes to get at the local DMV. Really Dumb
Walt
 
A Farm Vehicle with FARM USE ONLY tags can weigh in at 80,000 lb only needs a class A as long as he/she stays within 30 miles of home and is hauling farm products or supplies.
 
Here's my hint;
Don't drive any of those combinations in New York without a CDL. Every single one requires a CDL "here". Local inforcement may vary, but the actual regs don't.
 
In the wisconsin CDL guide book B and E do not need a CDL. It may be different in other states but I only drive in Wisconsin.
Bob
 
What's the big deal? In the time it takes to read all of these responces, you could have taken the test and have your CDL.

CDL $65.00
Medical $50-100

Still cheaper than a ticket or out of service citation.

If in doubt, go get your CDL and have peace of mind that you are legal.

It is not a big deal.
 
'Fraid not Rick- "B" would not require a CDL in NY. You can have a combination over 26K but until the power unit breaks 26K you're good on a D. You'd still be a CMV and if in commerce fall under DOT regs for Intrastate Commerce IF you were "Commercial". But Licensing is different.
 
here its D and E the rest, mandatory cdl nationwide, like the other poster said if its questionable just go get the @#$% licence and keep it leagle, its cheaper than the fine or siting for hours staring at a map trying to figure out how to run around a scale or port of entry, incedently if you get caught doing that its straight to jail for you in this state
 
Not to Nit Pic, but your questions are not worded correctly. CDL requirments are based on registered GVW/GVWR, not what the trailer weighs.
 
Depends. I can get away with all of the above! Why? Farm plates. I can legally drive anything from a class A down as long as I stay within 150 miles from home and do not cross state lines and don't haul for anyone but myself. And your questions are not worded correctly to accurately determine an answer.
 
According to federal standards unless farm plated ALL would require a DOT! ANYTHING with a GCVWR over 10k is considered a Commercial Motor Vehicle and must comply to DOT standards and rules unless exempt by some reason such as farm use.

From a Purdue articl about DOT rules and Regs.
"A pickup truck with a 7,000-pound GVWR, pulling a gooseneck livestock trailer with a GVWR of 17,000 pounds, has a CGVWR of 24,000 pounds. This combination is considered a commercial motor vehicle since the combined weight is over 10,000 pounds. In fact, the trailer alone qualifies as a commercial motor vehicle when attached to any vehicle since its GVWR is over 10,000 pounds. Do not confuse these weights with those pertaining to commercial driver licenses; CDLs are a separate issue covered later in this publication."
 
The correct answer is B and E. If you got it wrong do not feel bad because I know many DOT officers that can not get the correct answer.

A requires a CDL because the power unit is over 26,000 lbs.

B does not require a CDL because the power unit is not over 26,000 lbs and the trailer is not over 10,000 lbs even though the entire unit is over 26,000 lbs.

C requires a CDL because the entire unit is over 26,000 lbs and the trailer is over 10,000 lbs. It does not matter if the power unit is over 26,000 lbs in this case because the trailer is over 10,000 lbs.

D requires a CDL because there is no exemption for personal use. If you reach the weight criteria you need a CDL no matter what you are hauling.

E does not require a CDL because the entire unit is not over 26,000 lbs. It does not matter that the trailer is over 10,000 lbs because the entire unit does not meet the criteria.

If you need proof you can look at the link below to the federal guidelines for who needs a CDL.

This is federal law and states are not allowed to deviate from it at all. The only place states are allowed to deviate from CDL laws is when it comes to exemptions. A state is allowed to accept or not accept the exemptions out lined in the federal law because of the wording.
The federal law says states are allowed to exempt ??????? drivers from this rule but that does not mean they have to. These exemptions would include RV"s; farmers; firefighters; ect.....
Determine CDL Class Needed
 
From your post.........
[i:654c4848f0]Do not confuse these weights with those pertaining to commercial driver licenses; CDLs are a separate issue covered later in this publication.[/i:654c4848f0]



This discussion is about CDL and not DOT #'s so your response by your own wording does not pertain to what I was asking.
 
In some states it comes down to how the ticket writer understands the law. No matter if a higher state lawmaking board tells you the ticket shouldn't have been isued, they will also tell you the highway patrol or whoever isued the ticket has to agree. Lots of times they won't and you have to take time off if working and travel back to the state and take a chance or hope the court will dismiss ticket. Most times the ticket just gets paided.
 
'Correct' depends entirely on what jurisdiction you're in.
Here, in Nova Scotia, none of them would require a CDL although if you're towing a tailer over 9900# you require a licence endorsement.
Our licence 'class' system is staged such that any truck or combination over 14000 KG (30800#) requires a Class 3 CDL. Again, if you tow trailers over 4500 KG (9900#)
I'm not sure how they deal with heavy tag or pup trailers with air brakes, but I think they require a Class 1. Semi's require a Class 1.

There are no exceptions for farmers, RV's or anyone else in our system. It's entirely based on REGISTERED GVW. If you're hauling the weight, you need the licence, the medical and the whole shot...

Rod
 
How do you explain exception f(3) of section 390.3? Just curious.

From www.fmcsa.dot.gov:
Subpart A—General applicability and definitions
§390.3 General applicability.
(a) The rules in Subchapter B of this chapter are applicable to all employers, employees, and commercial motor vehicles, which transport property or passengers in interstate commerce.
(b) The rules in Part 383, Commercial Driver’s License Standards; Requirements and Penalties, are applicable to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in §383.5 of this subchapter, in interstate or intrastate commerce and to all employers of such persons.
.
.
.

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;
 
Boy you guys will read what ever you need into the laws to make them fit your needs.

But since you will want proof look at the regs that deals with CDL laws. Section 383.

Subpart A—General
§383.3 Applicability.
(b) The exceptions contained in §390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in §390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.
 
See, it's just like I said in the last post on this subject. NO ONE seems to know. If this thread doesn't prove that, I don't know what would! These threads need to be deleted at the outset. They serve no purpose. Misinformation is of no help to any one. These laws are so ununiform, ambiguous, and poorly written it's just ridiculous. I just will continue to load my tractors (my personal property) on my personal truck and trailer and haul them. If the powers that be think they can say hauling them is "commerce" the burden of proof will be on them. I'll be happy to see them in court.
 
I disagree with some of the answers. I have a tandem that weighs 14,700 empty and about 44,000 when loaded. I live in Indiana but farm in Illinois. Both Indiana & Illinois DOT people told me I need a CDL only if I cross state lines and haul a certain distance (I believe 100 miles)away from my farm. Then I need a CDL, DOT No. and physical.
 
My son just took a test last fall in a ten-wheeler with air brakes and did not get an air brake indorsement in IL. I thought he had to have that.
 
Thank you for responding with the specific section/part number. I am just trying to find and understand the appropriate regulations. Even with the search function, finding the appropriate sections on the FMCSA website and can provide seemingly contradictory information. Example; the definitions of a CMV do not match in sections 383.5 and 390.5. Now I am sure there a reason for this, but at this point I haven't figured it out.

Where do I find the definition of an RV or "recreational use". Just about every state completely or partially exempts the drivers from needing a CDL, but I find no exception or justification in the regs.

Thank you for your time and patience.
 
IndianaTom;
These rules apply to everyone; but since you have a farm you are working under a limited exemption.

The federal law allows for these exemptions and it is up to each state to decide if they will allow the exemption because the feds allow it but do not mandate it.

The exemption is for CDL and physical not for DOT #'s and you must stay within 150 miles of the farm and do not cross a state line unless the other state has a agreement to follow the first states rules in its state.

The feds do not mandate or enforce DOT #'s until you cross a state line so you will not need that if your state does not have such rules to mandate it.
 
MF294-4
If your son wants to drive a truck with air brakes he will need to do that test.
If he did his road test in a vechical that had air brakes he just needs to take the written test now. He can go back and have it added to his licence by taken the test.
 
Doug in IL
I have given consistant information backed up with proof from the federal regulations.
What I think your problem is you do not like the information given because it includes you and you feel you should not have to comply with these rules because you only do personal hauling.

I can not help you with that.
 
Going to Blow

Sorry if my tone came across wrong. Most people on this site are trying to find loop holes in the law because they do not want to comply. But from reading your new post I can see you are trying to learn. I will help you any way I can if that is the case.

Regulation 383 deals with drivers (CDL) and reg 390 deals with trucks. This is why they have different rules. A truck is considered commercial if it is 10,000 lbs or more and a driver is considered commercial if he drives a truck that weighs 26,000 lbs or more.

You can find the definition of a RV under section 571.3 Look for Motor home and Recreation vehicle trailer.
The DOT will not really use this; but the state license people will or should. Once you get past the state license people and have gotten a RV tag for your vehicle the DOT will leave you alone.

I could not find the reg that exempts because I do not have a older book with me. It was in the old book but has been deleted from the new book.

Lets see if I can explain this better. RV's use to be included in the regs and then the state was allowed to exempt these same RV's from regulation. It was totally up to the state as to if you were allowed the exemption or by how much. This is the same way they do with farmers and firefighters ect.......
But now the feds have totally removed RV's from the regs and they are totally unregulated. This is the power you have when you buy government officials threw lobbyist.

You can see this under Subpart A—General
§383.3 Applicability.

Go to 383.3 On the right side of the screen you will see a little box that says "Interpretation" This is a question and answer section. Go down to question 3.

Question 3: Does part 383 apply to drivers of recreational vehicles?

Guidance: No, if the vehicle is used strictly for non-business purposes.


Since this thread has moved several pages back on the classic view I may not see any new questions you ask. If you need more help I can be found with a new thread or by going to the Ford board on this site.
 
In Pa you can not get a CDL permit without first passing the air brake knowledge test. When you go for the road test you must be able to do the pretrip inspection for air brake operation. Example is leak down test,
Max air pressure cut out, low pressure alarm, ETC. There is no such thing as an air brake endorsment. The term is air brake restriction. If you pass the air brake test then the air brake restriction is removed from you permit or lic. . I have taken CDL permitted drivers to the test center for the road test and had them fail because they could not properly describe the air brake system to the tester, (sometimes because the driver was so nervous.) The instructor said I am not going to jepordize my life giving a person a road test if they don't know how the brake system works.

Took a driver for his road test once and the tail light was out. It had worked earlier when I went through the pretrip with the driver. The tester
would not give the road test until the light was fixed
CDL A-X
 
The trailer part always confuses people. What most people on here need to know is stay under 26,000 GCWR.
Your average single tire dual axle gooseneck or bumper pull trailer has a GVWR of 14,000. Pull that with a 3/4 ton truck, no CDL.
Pull it with a Chevy 1 ton (11,500 GVWR), no CDL.
Pull it with a Ford 1 ton (13,500 GVWR), CDL required.

A friend just bought a trailer and for some reason it is tagged as 16,000 GVWR. Pull it with a 1 ton, CDL required. Pull it with a 3/4 ton pickup, no CDL needed.

A triple axle gooseneck or a dual tandem gooseneck will be an automatic CDL.
The DOT uses the manufactured ratings to determine all this. However, they figure the weight rating to fine you based on what you licensed it at. Provided you don't go over tire or axle limits, you can be much heavier than the manufacturer rating, legally.
With my slide in camper in the box, my 11,500 pickup is closer to 13,000 lbs. No CDL needed, and I am still legal.
 
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