OT Frost seeding hay seed

Has anyone ever tried frost seeding for hay fields? I have a 3pt seeder/spreader and would like to add some better seed to my hay fields without spraying, plowing and discing. My friend had a no till seed drill but he sold it. So I was looking for another way to reseed. At what temp would you do this at, and what time of spring? Im in eastern New York on clay which has poor drainage. Thanks JayinNY.

Best way to frost seed is to wait until it thaws and heaves a little, and you have gaps in the dirt around the rocks- broadcast seed, and then maybe pasture harrow- this will incorporate the seed and give good germination come spring.

Jay,

I live in Tennessee, so I don't know if this applies to New York or not. Just last week, our county extension agent sent out a newsletter saying that clover seed could be broadcast onto pastures or hay fields during February without any tillage at all. He said that the freezing and thawing from the frost will incorporate the seed into the field by itself.

I'm going to try putting out some clover on one of my hay fields and see if it works. It better. Clover seed is selling for $3.00 - $4.00 per pound based on the type of clover.

Good luck,

Tom in TN

Don't know which grasses/legumes you are going to do? Experience has been you can do this in April/May with varying results. Weather needs to warm enough to start germination after it receives moisture. Have not heard of any seed protectants that would allow seed to be down weeks before warm weather.
Old crop residue has to be managed so seedlings can receive direct sunlight. Emerging weeds are the biggest problem to establishing a seeding. Depending on the crop/weed combination you may not have any options for chemical weed control. If alfalfa is the planted crop, you could use roundup ready alfalfa to allow use of roundup for control of competing plants. This would add significant cost to putting in the stand. Seeded grasses do not have the roundup option but do allow options like Buctril to control broadleafs. The disadvantage of this is that Buctril will kill the alfalfa, clovers, and trefoils. There is also state environmental laws in regards to use.
Also, most grasses seeded in the spring generally take the whole growing season to establish.
Bottomline, there are risks in what you are doing but you can reasonably hopeful of success.
I actually am doing something very similar this spring on 13 acres with alfalfa/timothy. Mowed last fall to get rid of tall weeds. So, I am going to put my money where my mouth is.

I was looking to seed timothy, orchard red clover mix, into reed canary grass, timothy orchard trifoil ect. I have one field that is 80% reed canary grass, Man sometimes its so wet here by the time I can bale it its like straw. Was told by a seed rep, you have to spray it with round up to get rid of it, plowing it under will cause it to reproduce by the root rizomes. If I can cut it early enought it is ok, but come July its just bedding hay.

Responding to the comments by the fellow in TN. Have not seen/heard of anybody here doing this in February but have for late March/ April/ Early May.
If you are in the lower Hudson Valley your growing season might be a couple weeks, possibly longer, earlier than most other parts of New York.
Could your local extension office help advise?

Tom And Mike ,thanks thats what I thought, if you seed when its thawed then refreezes it might germinate, or lay dormant until it warms up. Up here we have 2 feet of snow right now, so I would have to wait until late March or April. Problem is you really have to be careful up here on the clay, you can really make some awful ruts when it thaws. It gets real muddy. thanks

NY986 Im in the Mohawk Valley, so yes your right Late March or April. The guys from the lower states are lucky with the temps, snow fall and the soil. I hate this clay and rock soil up here.lol;

I've overseeded legumes into established pastures, much as Tom says. We don't get much snow, but I liked to seed into an inch or two of snow when possible.........in February or March; the melting snow/wet soil seemed to aid with soil contact and eventual germination. This is in Tennessee and the results were inconsistent.

Years ago my grand father always put fescue, orchard grass, clover and rye grass down if he thought we were going to get the last snow of the winter. The snow would melt and stick the seed to the sloping ground and germinate before we got any heavy rains.

Now days it doesn't snow much around these parts.. Seeding during a frost will stick the seed before rain has a chance to wash it away..

Not all but most seed will germinate when weather gets warmer. That is unless there is a considerable amount of time timme it gets warm.

In years gone by we have had reed canary grass. It will not grow in virtually all the areas the other hay crops will grow. We have put it where standing water is an issue. I'm thinking that even if you could establish timothy/ trefoil, it probably will not last more than a season or so due to the wet ground.
Is dealing with the drainage a possibility? If you can get rid of the standing water (if any), most of the crops mentioned (except alfalfa) will establish. We graded a small gully in a field one time with a back blade to rid standing water in a part of one field. Keep in mind that these other crops will mature around Memorial Day, so you will have the same issues if you can't get it before July.
You are right that you will have to kill the reed canary or it will smother the other crops.

I'm in the Western Finger Lakes region and I am thinking our season is just a tiny bit longer. Most hay crop seeds lose significant germination ability after 2 - 3 weeks of being down IMO.

Reed canary will choke out anything you try to over seed with. Best results we have had with min till over seeding is to hit it a few times with an areway areator to get some dirt up, float with dutch harrows on last pass and over seed with a min-till drill in the fall. You have to BEAT UP the exsisting stand so the new will compete.

Red clover works best, its hardy and viable. Light fluffy seeds like orchard grass are not as good. Seed at 2-4 lbs per acre any time the ground is frozen with little or no snow cover. You want a couple of weeks of freezing and thawing, think maple syrup season. If you wait until April you will just be feeding the song birds and the established grasses will smother out the clover that does germinate. Do it every year, some years you will get a catch, some years you throw your money away. This is Chenango county NY. My 2 cents.

now don't be bad-mouthing the Mohawk Valley soil

so very little of it in-between the rocks, it must be valuable stuff indeed

try to get "fresh" seed not last years leftover, you are looking at several weeks before this frozen mess gets thin enuf to frost seed

I do this most years to improve hay fields. I frost seed red clover and orchardgrass. Red clover works best in my location (northern Maryland). I do this in late Feb in early mornings on days when it is below freezing and it will warm up to 40's later in day, and then freeze again at night. Best done when there are a lot of small cracks in soil and a crumbly look to soils due to rapid freezing & thawing cycles. Most other hay grasses & legumes don't work well for me. You can apply pelletized lime also at this time.