- Thread starter huntingreen2day
- Start date
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I remember when Johnny Carson was starting out in television. Long before "The Tonight Show", he was the host of a game show named "Do You Trust Your Wife?" That program later changed its name to "Who Do You Trust?"
My dilemma is, who do I trust? This is the same news media that just a few months ago had all of the answers for why the oil prices were spiking. It seems that there were hurricanes, rumors of wars, increased demand in emerging nations, etc., etc.
So now, we're to believe this report from the people who were so wrong just a few months ago. I don't know. I have serious mistrust for politicians, investment bankers, news media, and wealthy capitalists.
It'll be interesting see what "conventional wisdom" emerges during the next few months.
Tom in TN
My dilemma is, who do I trust? This is the same news media that just a few months ago had all of the answers for why the oil prices were spiking. It seems that there were hurricanes, rumors of wars, increased demand in emerging nations, etc., etc.
So now, we're to believe this report from the people who were so wrong just a few months ago. I don't know. I have serious mistrust for politicians, investment bankers, news media, and wealthy capitalists.
It'll be interesting see what "conventional wisdom" emerges during the next few months.
Tom in TN
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The new man is going to save us all !
The local news channel this morning said because of the Israel war and the theoretical threat to oil supply lines is why gas prices went up while oil prices actually went down.
There's some here that spouted supply and demand through the whole theft, how do you justify this upside down scenario?
There's some here that spouted supply and demand through the whole theft, how do you justify this upside down scenario?
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
A lot of people believe that speculation is necessarily bad. Actually, speculators are an essential part of the commodities market. If there were no speculators, commodities markets wouldn't work. Speculators are the buyers when no one else is buying, and the sellers when no one else is selling.
However, speculation can and does get out of hand, as we've seen numerous times in history, such as the infamous "tulip mania" of 1637. I recall the Hunt brothers trying to corner the silver market in 1980; the fallout wrecked Great Western Sugar and stopped sugar beet farming in much of the high plains for many years.
In the case of recent oil prices, there's no doubt that speculation played a role. But that speculation was fueled by record levels for oil production and consumption. It was assumed that the expanding economies in China and India would only drive demand further up. Of course, we all know what "assume" means.
However, speculation can and does get out of hand, as we've seen numerous times in history, such as the infamous "tulip mania" of 1637. I recall the Hunt brothers trying to corner the silver market in 1980; the fallout wrecked Great Western Sugar and stopped sugar beet farming in much of the high plains for many years.
In the case of recent oil prices, there's no doubt that speculation played a role. But that speculation was fueled by record levels for oil production and consumption. It was assumed that the expanding economies in China and India would only drive demand further up. Of course, we all know what "assume" means.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
If specualtors drove the market the market would always go up not down to today's level.Demand is way down and production levels were the same now there maybe is a threat to production on the horizon so prices ease up.Its basic economics but its not a much fun as wild ignorant conspiracy theories.
No different than the grain market took a jump last week due to lack of rain reported in Brazil so is it really good for the producer??
Hedge funds took a big hit world wide with the bundled sub prime housing paper work. Hedge fund are ultra amounts of cash without regulations for the most part. Not much different than gambling.
Grain market players need a true buy in rather part of contract buy in. This will seperate the want abees out and stablize the markets.
The Hunt brothers had a plan, but greed won in the end. How many thousand truck does the Hunts have on the road?
Hedge funds took a big hit world wide with the bundled sub prime housing paper work. Hedge fund are ultra amounts of cash without regulations for the most part. Not much different than gambling.
Grain market players need a true buy in rather part of contract buy in. This will seperate the want abees out and stablize the markets.
The Hunt brothers had a plan, but greed won in the end. How many thousand truck does the Hunts have on the road?
Mathias NY
Well-known Member
If a speculator believes that demand for a product will go down, they will not invest in stock for that industry. With the media broadcasting that demand is falling, speculators listen, stop investing and prices fall.
Conspiracy theories as always more fun...
Conspiracy theories as always more fun...
I was going to watch that till they put obammy on every 3 seconds. I cannot stand to look at him anymore. I just turned the TV off and went to the farm, fed the cows some grain and walked around checking fence in the dark. The company is better out in the field with the skunks and badgers than watching the lib media hawk the new messiah.
If 27 barrels of oil are traded compared to one barrel for the largest actual buyer of real oil,whats that tell you?I think it was in May that Micheal Masters posted what was going on in the market,maybe April.Why did it take so long to get on TV?Because besides deregulation there is no news media either.Seems like its still going on too.The Enron crooks all along wanted a market where they could announce on the radio a hurricane was out in the Gulf of Mexico and jack prices up double.
No matter what anybody says about it,this ruined lots of people.There was no sense in it.Speculators are what caused it and need to go to jail for it.
All of those folks that paid those thousand dollar electric bills,poor people starving,people loosing their business,the prices farmers had to pay for fertilizer,there is a way bigger picture here than the little tiny one presented.The one presented being terrible,but only a part of the story.
No matter what anybody says about it,this ruined lots of people.There was no sense in it.Speculators are what caused it and need to go to jail for it.
All of those folks that paid those thousand dollar electric bills,poor people starving,people loosing their business,the prices farmers had to pay for fertilizer,there is a way bigger picture here than the little tiny one presented.The one presented being terrible,but only a part of the story.
We are the lemmings. The buffer that insures that those who play with money can win on the top end and we lose on the bottom end.
Can you imagine what would have happened if our SSI did get tied to the Stock Markets like many wanted?
I know my 401k does not look to good. I wonder how many big shots my losses have insulated?
Can you imagine what would have happened if our SSI did get tied to the Stock Markets like many wanted?
I know my 401k does not look to good. I wonder how many big shots my losses have insulated?
Part of what government is for is to regulate so this doesnt happen.Otherwise if the truth comes out and makes sufficient people mad enough,the regulation that happens will be machine guns,most likely from another country/government here "helping" us regulate these crooked speculators.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I'm with you 100% -- I grew up reading the newspaper and watching the news and have always kept it up, but I cannot stomach the slobbering lavished on external_link. My Wife can't believe I'm not watching Fox News at 6 p.m. these days.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
For starters, this is old news, just because it took 60 minutes (of abundant lies) a year to catch up doesn't make it earth shattering. Where do you think all this money that the hedge funds manage comes from? 100's of billons of dollars -- a large amount comes from state retirement systems, Teachers, Cops, Firefighters pensions. Plenty of wealthy individuals invest as well as Universities and Charities holding major endowments. So who should go to Jail? Mrs. Brown, who taught me in the third grade or maybe some of the Hollywood America haters that invest what money they don't donate to external_link. As for the speculators being in the employ of the Oil companies, try this, take a cow to the sale barn and get a friend to bid her up and you bid her up and when one of the two of you winds up as the buyer let me know how it worked out. As for the grand plan of ''Regulating'' the price of oil, well there could be a small problem since 70% of the oil on the market belongs to Foriegn Goverments and corporations who do not fall under US law. Otherwise, maybe your future Leader could regulate oil and then we could all get rich speculating in the Horse and Buggy market.
Sean McDonnell
Member
I generally put as much faith in the nightly news as I do in the weather forcast. I get about the same amount of useful facts from both reports.
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
h
I also watched the 60 minutes report. When it is reported that the largest oil company in America is Morgan Stanley, and not Exxon/mobil it makes you wonder. I think there was enough content in the report to dispell without too much doubt that there never was an oil/supply problem.
I also watched the 60 minutes report. When it is reported that the largest oil company in America is Morgan Stanley, and not Exxon/mobil it makes you wonder. I think there was enough content in the report to dispell without too much doubt that there never was an oil/supply problem.
Every news is labeled some kind of hogwash, lib media. So were do you get your info?
Obviously the problem is not whos monies they are, but who's speculating and where it's being invested. So if all these monies belong to state retirement systems, Teachers, Cops, Firefighters pensions etc, why do I hear on these Lib medias that the oil companies are making billions a month and everybodies 401K is in the tank? These people weren't in it beforee and oils were more stable, looks like they need to be blocked out and investments only allowed on an actual product.
Obviously the problem is not whos monies they are, but who's speculating and where it's being invested. So if all these monies belong to state retirement systems, Teachers, Cops, Firefighters pensions etc, why do I hear on these Lib medias that the oil companies are making billions a month and everybodies 401K is in the tank? These people weren't in it beforee and oils were more stable, looks like they need to be blocked out and investments only allowed on an actual product.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The proposal was for an optional, not mandatory, program that younger folks could put PART of the money into. Over time the stock market does perform, thus the need to allow only younger ones to take the risk. The nnalert just criticized the idea, forgetting to use correct terminology.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You probably recall everyones 401 K was in the tank right after 911 when the stock market and economy nose dived. I never said the oil companies didn't make money, that is the point of being in business, but the oil companies making money is not evil or bad for the economy. Speculators affect the prices of all commodoties to some extent, but they cannot make the price go up with out someone else bidding.
You sort of lead into what I was curious about. Why is speculating good for Americans, were they won't be back to horse and buggy, if this is some artificial price based on futures that goes to investors and the oil companies? Say joe-blow teacher makes $700 for the month in their 401K and between their home heating oil and car fuel they spend $1200, how is this good?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
That tells me there were 26 gamblers in that card game. It is all still supply and demand -- the Speculators bid and bet that oil will go up, probably most of them also ''short'' half again as much as they bid long so as to hedge their bet. In the above transaction as described so far, nobody has bought a barrel of $150.00 oil yet. Now comes Mr.Refiner and he has sold all of his $4.00 per gallon gas and he needs more oil -- well it costs what it costs -- if Mr. Refiner and all of his competitors had plenty of gas stocked up and could hold off buying crude for a month or so then crude would be cheaper and Mr. Speculator would be poorer, you can bet some of those Speculators that got fat last year are holding their britches up with a clothesline now. What would you regulate? do you want the Goverment to tell people what they can invest their money in? I know you will still not agree but also think about this, how come oil was $150.00 a barrel all over the world if it was those evil American oil traders that ran the price up -- Japan has ironclad contracts in the Middle East guarunteeing them so many barrels a day, that oil wasn't going to come here regardless.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Speculating in the commodoties markets is one of the most high risk investments available, it is a far cry from guarunteed profits. Say someone buys an old Tractor in good shape for $1000.00 because he figures he can sell it for $1200.00, he is a speculator, he might get the $1200.00 or maybe $1500.00 or things slow down and he does not sell it at all or gets in a bind for the money and has to sell for $800.00. All commodity trades are basically the same as the tractor deal, to avoid losing your shirt someone else has to want or need contracts you control and be willing to pay your price. That is why all prices in a free market system are ultimately set by supply and demand.
The question was why is speculating in oil good for the USA, given the high prices that ultimately lead to the down fall of the housing market, the stock market, the car industry, thousands of jobs gone, etc? It was not how it works, it doesn't move a stable, cheap supply to us, it just makes it for speculators to manipulate and for people to think they're getting some theoretical profit.
You impress me as somebody too close to the oil industry, and trying to justify your conscious because the average American is not or not knowingly even invested in oil. They are more like the scenario trucker40 describes "No matter what anybody says about it,this ruined lots of people.There was no sense in it.Speculators are what caused it and need to go to jail for it.
All of those folks that paid those thousand dollar electric bills,poor people starving,people loosing their business,the prices farmers had to pay for fertilizer,there is a way bigger picture here than the little tiny one presented"
Not everybody is an investor, but your returns are some peoples monies that they busted their piggy bank at the gas station for gas so they could get to work.
People are caught up in "we're a Global Economy", we ain't, all that is is a catch phrase for big business to find cheap labor and for the sucking sound of Americas money leaving.
All of those folks that paid those thousand dollar electric bills,poor people starving,people loosing their business,the prices farmers had to pay for fertilizer,there is a way bigger picture here than the little tiny one presented"
Not everybody is an investor, but your returns are some peoples monies that they busted their piggy bank at the gas station for gas so they could get to work.
People are caught up in "we're a Global Economy", we ain't, all that is is a catch phrase for big business to find cheap labor and for the sucking sound of Americas money leaving.
Look,there will be regulation.I bet that an atmosphere where anything like this will never happen again has already been promised to the rest of the world,and that it will take a very long time for the problems this caused to go away.
Wonder why I can say that with such certainty?Farmers are worth way more than grain speculators.Want to speculate up a couple billion bushel of corn next year?Or would you rather have some billions in the bins?It dont take long to see that a speculator is not necessary.
You are going to go on believing,no matter what anybody says,and a bunch of you will,that you know better.That this stock market deal is where you are going to make a killing.One day your ship will come in.Get rich quick is the "new" way the world runs.Yeah and you will loose everything if you believe that.Way more money is made off of crops by speculators than the people who grow the crops.You think thats fair?You want to live in a world thats a house of cards,all the time.You think you are big shot gambler?Keep on thinking like that and you will be wearing a barrel held up by clothesline rope.
Now you think the thing to do is put oil in the same group?Everybody is just going to set here casually while you jump oil and gas stocks up and down at will?The rest of the world wont care a bit when that happens,right?The thing for you to do is say,no thats not the truth,the speculators didnt do it.The news is lying.Prices jumped because demand went down and supply went up.Good luck in getting anybody to believe you.Keep doing it and it will turn into the wild west with speculators swinging in the breeze,could still happen.
Wonder why I can say that with such certainty?Farmers are worth way more than grain speculators.Want to speculate up a couple billion bushel of corn next year?Or would you rather have some billions in the bins?It dont take long to see that a speculator is not necessary.
You are going to go on believing,no matter what anybody says,and a bunch of you will,that you know better.That this stock market deal is where you are going to make a killing.One day your ship will come in.Get rich quick is the "new" way the world runs.Yeah and you will loose everything if you believe that.Way more money is made off of crops by speculators than the people who grow the crops.You think thats fair?You want to live in a world thats a house of cards,all the time.You think you are big shot gambler?Keep on thinking like that and you will be wearing a barrel held up by clothesline rope.
Now you think the thing to do is put oil in the same group?Everybody is just going to set here casually while you jump oil and gas stocks up and down at will?The rest of the world wont care a bit when that happens,right?The thing for you to do is say,no thats not the truth,the speculators didnt do it.The news is lying.Prices jumped because demand went down and supply went up.Good luck in getting anybody to believe you.Keep doing it and it will turn into the wild west with speculators swinging in the breeze,could still happen.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy