O.T. Canadian healthcare

We hear so much about the US healthcare system; how poor and expensive it is. Some assume the "free" healthcare in Canada is better. One Canadian health care worker told me that about half of the population buys private health insurance in addition to the government program. Hear stories about long waits for MRI, treatment, etc. Could some Canadians please give us some info how it works? Also address the taxes to pay for it.

We pay twice as much for gasoline as you do to pay for the healthcare system. Retail and income tax are higher too. Lots of waste in the system when operated by bureaucrats.
I waited nine months for a shoulder mri.

A lot of people here don't seem to understand that nothing is "free." The money has to come from somewhere.

Well I think its great and here's my story. I pay $242 a month for semi private coverage, all my doctor and healthcare expenses are covered, my prescription drugs are in that fee as well. The government puts a lot of money into it but I think it works well.
Yes there are waits for some procedures, that's because it doesn't cost anyone anything!. There are some doctor shortages in rural areas, young doctors want to be in the large centers.
I had a stroke three years ago or so and I had cat scan, mri's bubble tests cartoid artery tests, sent to stroke clinic, had two specialists and am now under the care of one of Canada's top stroke doctors, I am taking cholestorol pills, blood pressure pills, and blood thinners, I have recieved excellent care over three years..why do I think we have a good system??? I have not had to pay one cent to a doctor, specialist, clinic or hospital, not one cent for my drugs and care..other than the monthly carrying fee which covers my wife as well. I did not have to borrow money or mortgage my house because of a medical crisis, I owe nothing for these incredible services. Some people whine because they have to wait six months to have a knee replaced..well heck it is free and there's a lot of people using a free system..I can't say that it is perfect but I am darned glad we have the system we do, it sure saved my life and under such emergency situations there is no waiting. Yes the government would like to see no waiting for any proceedure but again imagine the line up when it is free...I'm happy, yes I hear stories that someone had to wait in the hallway on a stretch for four days before a room was available..it didn't cost them anything..some people just aren't patient patients! Perfection is hard to achive but "darned good" is close!

You have to wait forever even if you have an appoinment although with an apoinment you usually wait a bit less. You have to wait forever for anything unless your going to die. They also don't want you if their not your family doctor. 6 month or longer waits for surgerys are very normal and although people hate it there's not much you can do about it.

I've never heard anything good about Canadian healthcare - here in the US, or while in Canada - except maybe from nnalert Clinton's mouth. In fact, everytime I'm in Canada, and get reading some Canadian newspaper or magazine, about all I DO read is what's wrong with the Canadian system -as told by other Canadians. Can't verify if all is true, any more than some of the crap I read in the US. But, I assume much IS true. Many US people go to Canada to buy cheap health care as cash payers. But, from what I've read, Canadians are not allowed to do that in their own country. - i.e. you can't offer cash to get things done better or quicker?

All in all, we've got some of the best health care in the world here in the USA. What lies in the future, who knows? I still miss the way things were 50 years ago. Call the doc, and half an hour later he came to the house. You gave him $15-$20 and he gave you a penicillin shot in your rear- regardless if you needed it or not. It either cured you - or killed you (literally).

I'm in Germany where every idiot has health coverage whether they work for it or not. I have American insurance so have to pay cash for my care and get reimbursed (- deductable). My wife is employed and has insurance paid half/half by her and her company w/100% coverage. Doctors/hospitals get paid quicker by insurance companies than the government so in other than emergency situations, folks get seen accordingly. My wife may wait a couple of weeks for an appointment for dental checkup/cleaning, doctor visits, etc. The Social group may weight months for anything. I've waited longer at the emergency room than it took to get an appointment at a doctor or dentist. Emergency rooms are usually not much more than a doctors office for the social group. My wife gets aggravated because I can usually call and walk in.

Dave

Wait a while or lose your home paying for it ?
hmmm

I think the single biggest cause for personal bankruptchy int the USA is medical expenses.
If not still the largest it is close to the top reason.

Nothing is 'free'.
Originally our healthcare was mostly funded by the provincial governments, and that was largely done through a sales tax. Here in Nova Scotia it used to be 10%. I think it then went to 11% or so before our provincial and federal sales taxes were integrated about 10-15 years ago. The present provincial portion of the 13% sales tax is 8%.
In later years the feds have kicked in a lot more money, but it's still largely a provincial responsibility... and varies by province.

The only additional coverage anyone needs here is for dental and drug plans as those are both private. Medicare will keep you alive in a hospital but it won't cover a lot of drugs if you're not admitted to hospital. Private insurance also covers all the extras while you're in a hospital like private rooms, TV, etc. Medicare is basic coverage and strictly related to what you need medically...
Medicare is also universal here in that anyone who is a resident is entitled to services if they have a healthcard.

There are certainly problems with the system here in regards to wait times, and I think it's fair to say that when it comes to treatment... if there is a less expensive procedure and a more expensive procedure, a doctor is likely to think about the likely outcomes before sending you for the expensive procedure.
I guess you might say that people are sometimes steered towards accepting their fate rather than pulling all the stops... although medically they might be just as well off.
I know of people who had to fight to have things done wheras in the US system, if you've got the money, you get what you want. It may not help, but it was tried...
The wait time issues here are mostly a recruitment problem with staff. You can't get people who aren't out there. As I understand it, there's poaching of personelle going on from one end of this continent to the other.

As far as the bureaucracy aspect of medicare is concerned, there are management issues there, without doubt. However, I don't think those issues are any less in a private setting with the same level of bureaucracy. I don't beleive it to be a public/private issue but simply a size issue. With a certain size operation, a management structure must be developed... and management structures become bureaucratic.
Hello, GM....

Personally I beleive that if there was a recommitment to medicare in this country at the political levelm then the management structure could be changed in the necessary ways to get the staff and other resources needed to provide better care. I'm not sure it really requires more money, but perhaps sometimes a different point of view on some subjects.
There's so much dogma involved here that practical solutions tend to be nixed out of fear...
With all that said, I still would not want a private, for profit health system.
If one wanted to look at the overall efficiency of our system, you could say that it provides one of the best levels of care anywhere in the world, with little concern of cost to the individual, and provides it to every resident of the country.
The US has the very best care for those with the most money, none for those with no money, and probably a balance somewhere in between for the average citizen... for which they pay high insurance premiums, high sales taxes and high income taxes.
I think one needs to look at this in perspective...

Rod

Michael, you're dead on!!!!!!!! My late wife delt with Multiple Sclerosis for over 30yrs and I'm here to tell you that we would have lost everything if it wasn't for our health care system. It really burns my butt when I hear the people whinning about the system. At times, we had to be patient, but if the situation warranted it, we were looked after promptly and very professionaly. I find that far too many people to-day have RIGHTS instead appreciating the PRIVILEDGES that they have been afforded in society as a whole. Our family doctor still makes house calls and supplies me with my medications for free (samples). We here in Canada are so very fortunate!!!!!!

The number I saw was 48%, from Harvard University study. I don't think anything else was close. Happened to a family member. Infant son got pneumonia, 36K later he lost his house, and wife. He worked for a company that went under. No insurance, 20 years ago. It's worse now.

Is the Canadian system flawed? Yes, but I know that it is superior to the US system in some ways. I know someone who had a liver transplant that was originally from the US. She said that Canada is way ahead in terms of transplants and if she would have been waiting for a donor in the US, she would have died! Another plus for the Canadian system is that up here a Dr. will treat you without having to know how much money you have or don't have. I've read that just having a baby can cost thousands in the US. There are a few private places for MRI's and other special procedures but the Gov't. does frown on them. Dave

We do pay more for taxes because of our health care system but it is still one of the best in the world and worth the extra taxes expecially for the middle and lower classes which more and more people are falling into all the time now. I have had a lot of first hand experiance with the system.
We had a daughter born with a rare disease, no muscle tone and a deformed brain. She stayed at the level of a 3 month old mentally and physcially. She spent much time staying in one of the best hospitals, Childrens Hospital of Eastern Ontario, seen the best doctors in the field. Spent many a week in the local hospital because of the problems lack of muscle caused like pneumonia from swallowing. Came to a point where she needed a feeding tube in her stomach, machine to pump the formula. Had to have oxygen tanks in the house. Had to have a nurse come to home everyday to check on daughter. Had a helper come in for 8 hours a day to help wife with daughters care so wife could care for our other childern.
Daughter finally came to the point where she had to stay in hospital for the last 6 months of her life. She died when she was 5 and a half years old.
Now I wonder what the real costs of over 5 years of seeing these doctors, hospital stays, special equipment, home nurse and helper, surgeries, everything it took to give her the best possiable life. $500,000.00, $1,000,000.00???
I don't care I just know my daughter got the best care and best quality of life she could have. I never lost my house and never ended up in debt with bills I could never ever pay.
To me that bit of extra taxes is well worth it. Is the same for any child born with them problems and parents are not rich. I gladly pay the extra taxes and don't really think about it.
Now my question is in the USA if this situation happened to somebody uninsured what would happen. Would the child be in the best hospitals? see the best doctors? get the best care? family get help in home? have all the equipment needed? Or would the family just get tossed scraps and let the child die? Or for that matter even if insured would the HMO cut the family off after a couple of hundred thousand? Would family have lost house and been in debt rest of their lifes? I think yes would be the answer to any of them questions.
Canada does have flaws in the health field but if emergancy you get looked after. If life and death you get looked after. Like somebody else said might need to wait for a knee or hip replacement if not an emergancy.
Now anybody who has not seen Mike Moore movie Sicko needs to see it. You might hate him but he did make many good points in that movie if you beleive it or not.
I usually don't post much but this is one topic I have had a lot of experiace in and also know people in the USA that have about lost everything because of a sudden illness and do know what happens.
I hope this answers you questions and for any Canadians that have never been sick and complain about taxes wait till you do end up in a life and death situation. When you are alive after it all and still have a home to go to you will think twice about compaining about taxes again.

If you put everybody in line for medical services that don't have health care service in the US, there would be lines too.

that is true, health care in Canada sucks real bad. My grandparents moved to Canada 20 years ago for the "free" health care. But like any government program it is run like poorly. Many canadians come to the USA to get better care and pay for it with ins. or their own money.

I live in the US, and get involved at ground level with our health care system. A accurate number is imposible to come up with for folks with insurance. I would assume however that over 50% don't have enough insurance. And when you load first timers with what they assume is enough insurance they are peacefull in mind.

However if you have a emergency call with those same folks a few months later, they are allarmed at what the new emergency is going to cost. They will try there best to avoid additional health care because they can't afford it.

We also in our golden years think death is a better option than giving up personel posesions that will be passed on to our children.

Most folks that think they have very good insurance haven't got a clue what road they are heading down if a major health event demands high dollars.

I feel health insurance is like the lottery. More money MUST come in than go outward. Besides all the help must be paid in the insurance field also. We all know that the insurance folks are not exactly (as a overall group) in the low income bracket.

We in America are fortunate to be able to look down on those less fortunate who have no insurance or poor health that has put them in the beggers position. We all asume we are somehow smarter than them because we got a few breaks in life that we refer to as hard working, dedicated, conservitive, living with in our means. Well I often wonder if we have any idea of how fortunate we are.

Our walfare system wears camo clothing, and often put bright colors on those less fortunate that are what we call (a burden) to our comunity. Many of us have gotten government help, because we deserve it in our minds. If you don't believe I deserve the government hand outs, JUST ASK ME! Most of us take it for granite.

I'm a big believer that our government could indeed handle health care cheaper than all insurance companies combined. But we all know government and good managment doesn't go hand in hand.

Besides in the US, insurance companies, and drug companies can afford lobbiests, so government run health care is out of the question.

I'm fortunate to have VA health care, and our care is extremly good in our area.

Canadian here I am sure there are those that are frustrated with the health care systems but all I can say from our recent experience is it seems to work for us Wifey had a problem, meant trips to family doctor, specialist, CT scans etc, biopsy, referall to Cancer centre & diagnosis & treatment (chemo ) started time frame 7 weeks total first experience with this type of thing but time frame does not seem too bad as far as i know my employer drug plan covers the cost of drugs for this but treatment centre said if i did not have it the Ontario Goverment would foot the bill
bob

It's not perfect, but I wouldn't want to be without it. A much bigger issue is a doctor shortage in smaller rural areas.

Remember my American friends you people believe in Capitalism and thats how you run your insurance and public hospitals. We in Canada are socialists and tend to be more humane. My sister is a usa resident and head nurse at a us private hospital and says we canadians are spoiled and abuse the medical system by visiting the emergency unit for colds and such.She tells me at her hospital the insurance company will tell you to quit smoking before they give you a puffer for your cough.Its all business there.Here we doddle you at great taxpayers expense. Which is better depends on how sick you are!

I suspect, many if not most USA citizens don't find out what they can really get - until it happens. Some die NOT getting coverage.

My father died in the VA (veteran's administration) hospital after being refused high-end care for liver disease. Ironically, they told me at the time that ... if he was proven to be an a alcoholic - he'd qualify for better care - but he was not. He was a WWII vet, and worked his life as a lineman/foreman for the power company. Seems his original healt insurance ran out, and reverted to the VA.

I was told - by a quack doctor 15 years ago that I was terminally ill. Still waiting, seems she (the quack) was in error. At that time, there was a chemo-treatment available with a reported 30% success rate. My insurance refused to pay for it. In retrospect, maybe I was better off?

Right now - any time when either my wife, my son, or I want to see a doctor for anything, we have to shell out $35 dollars cash as the co-pay.
That's on top of the huge premium we pay every month for the health insurance.

On top of all that, most USA health insurance plans carry - in the small print - lifetime caps to how much money they have to spend on you in total. When you reach that cap, you're screwed - unless you're a congressman or equivalent.

Seems other countries have their own problems. My cousin who lives in France - recently shipped his wife to Long Island, New York after she had a stroke. Put her in a nursing home. Why? French health coverage didn't do enough and required him to help care for his wife. He happens to have dual citizenship since he was a chef for president JFK many years ago. So, he took advantage of some loophole and shipped her over here. He's still in France.

On the "bright side" of things. When my baby daughter was born 30 years ago - she almost died at birth. Helicopter flew her to Albany Medical Center neo-natal unit and she spent months there. The medical bills were huge and there were no way to pay. My wife and I had medical insurance - but some loophole allowed the health insurance company to get out of paying. We had just switched jobs and had new insurance - and they called the birth a "pre-existing" condition.
We had all kinds of judgements against us. Ultimately - some private donor/foundation came to our rescue and paid the entire bill. I'm still thankful, and ticked off - at what happened.

"I feel health insurance is like the lottery. More money MUST come in than go outward. Besides all the help must be paid in the insurance field also. We all know that the insurance folks are not exactly (as a overall group) in the low income bracket."

What everybody knows and what is true are often different. Insurance sales agents and top management make good money, most of the people who work for the health insurance companies make a lot less. As a former Anthem BC & BS employeee, I can assure you that the pay is not all that good, but the health benefits are good.

Most of the jobs at an insurance company are filled by women doing jobs that are easily trained, so the company doesn't pay much. Most of the IT jobs have already gone to India, and they are in the process of having doctors' offices go to electronic filing of claims so even the data entry jobs are disappearing.

I left because there was no future for me there. And most of the people I worked with felt the same way.

Chuck: The Canadian system gets a lot of abuse. A source very close to a clinic run by a group of doctors, tells me it is the same mothers in there with the same snotty nosed kids week after week after week. It just never stops and is the same folks year in, year out.

Another complaint I hear is seniors with little or nothing wrong, taxing the system to high heaven. I know my own mother was guilty of this, man the things that woman dreamed up being wrong with her. She thought if she wasn't in the doctor's office weekly, she wasn't getting her moneys worth.

Another complaint I have, and I've just turned 66. If my doctor had his way, I'd be on a dozen perscriptions. I get the impression these pill pushers want to turn us into a bunch of senior dope addicts. Now a friend tells me, if the doctor could make me a bit more doppy, I wouldn't be so damn opinionated. Well, I got news for him, I've been opinionated for many, many years, sure as hell beats being doppy.