O/T Bailout question

phillipd · Dec 17, 2008

It is or isn't great and all that the government is using tax payers money to help save copanies that employ directly and indirectly hundreds of thousands of people who spend their money in their communities and such.My question in this,for all the money thrown at them,does the government end up with some share capital for their money?Not likely,but we should should we not???

Eric SEI · Dec 17, 2008

At least one of the big 3 bailout plans involved preferred stock. Of course since nothing passed, we're left with treasury loans as a temp solution until the new congress meets in January.

IH2444 · Dec 17, 2008

What do you mean a loan till congress meets ? with nearly 10 trillion in debt it is all on the card.

Jeff Oliver · Dec 17, 2008

Are you sure you want the government owning any manufacturing in this country? They bought stock in the banks and insurance companies so now they are involved in your banking and healthcare.

The latest news that struck me was that the Big 3 are shutting down plants here in the US for extended periods of time because of slow sales thus laying off thousands or more American workers.

The japanese companies however are closing for extended periods and laying off workers in other countries. So basically the way I see it those import companies are doing more to keep our people working than the US manufacturers are. Hmmmm

The place I work at has had to do the same as well since we run alot of parts for the auto industry. I don't however see anyone bailing us out, never have.

Also I read where our newly elected President is wanting to spend more than he said initially to stimulate the economy and create government paid jobs.

Could someone up there figure out that we need to figure out how to keep the manufacturing jobs in this country instead of having everyone work for the government? I mean if your build roads and bridges and things that is fine and they are needed but do they really produce any revenue to pay for themselves?

Just venting I guess but I don't see where giving more money out instead of trying to get industry back into the US is going to fix anything. Eventually you have to manufacture something to sell to make money, and the building programs and stuff don't do that.

ArleninOr · Dec 17, 2008

Put it on account. On account we can't afford it.

paul · Dec 17, 2008

I don't mind bailing out an industry when things go wrong.

I don't believe $25 billion will help - I hear it will take $125 billion or so to get them through. I believe the $25 billion will either be lost or used as a wedge to get more money. So this is about $125 billion in my mind, and it is hard to see it ever being repaid.

I think the auto industry was in trouble long ago, and they chose not to fix their problems. Both upper management & the unions share the blame on that.

I don't see what is going to change to make the auto industry a proud, workable thing. I see the $125 billion used as a crutch to get through the bad couple years, and business will be as usual. Same crippled buiness model as we have had for years. As a show of change in these difficult times, some changes will be made - mostly smaller parts places not part of the big 3 will end up farmed out to Mexico or Pasific Rim. So, the $125 billion will be used to get rid of more USA jobs, smaller towns across the USA will be hurt, & the figurehead big company heads & big union bosses will pretend all is well & continue on without becoming a better buisness.

That is the part of the bailout that bothers me.

If the money would be used to make a stronger, better, proud USA buisness return, I'd be in the front of the line to hand over the $125 billion - knowing it won't come back.

But.... Seems we are just going to throw money at bad leaders (on both sides, co & union) and continue on the same bad business plan. And that bothers me. All we get is a sour, poor business that is lurching along, not really successful or leading our ecconomy forward. More of a drag on the rest of us than a shining leader of industry....

So, it is a difficult issue. I'd understand helping the industry if it would do some good. But I fear it's just a money-hole, that does not return strength back to the USA.

Does it cure the illness, or just prolong it? In any case I feel for the workers, and for the suppliers of components. I think with or without the bailout, they will be hurt, and I wonder if these groups will be better off with or without the bailout in the long run?

--->Paul

Tim B from MA · Dec 17, 2008

Jeff, I am by no means intendig to endorse what uncle Sam is doing, but I have the following info / thoughts regarding your questions.

1. The Fed did buy part of AIG and some of the investment banks they are bailing out (i.e., stockholders), so theroetically, if these companies bounce back, the Fed will eventually make money on the deal. Supposedly it happened in the past with our bail out of Chrysler, Savings and Loan and Mexico. However, I would not bet on it this time.

2. If we bail out the American Auto industry and you are a supplier to those companies, we are by extension bailing out your company.

3. Manufacturing jobs will come back to the US of A when our standard of living (real- term wages) becomes comparable with the standard of living of workers in competeing companies. That may happen faster than we think.

JOE FARMER · Dec 18, 2008

U KNOW WHAT I HOPE ALL PIECES OF $HIT GET WHAT U WANT OUT OF THIS BS I'M SET BUT U BETTTERR WATCH YOUR A@@$ BECAUASE THE BIG THREEEEEEEE STRECTH WAY BEYOND WHAT YOU SMALL MINDS COULD FAMIN JUST GOTA ASK BEFORE I SAY F11K ALL OF U HOW MANY OF U A$$$HOLES ON HERE ACTALLY DO ANY TYP OF FARMING PER SAY ....... I WOULD SAY A VERY FEW, LETS JUSTN GIVE ALL OUR MONEY 2 THE CREDIT UNIONS AND BORROW SOME MORE ,,, U GUY MAKE ME PUKE CAPTIAN MORGAN TALKING BUT WTF I JUST GOT LAID OFF TODAY

phillipd · Dec 18, 2008

I milk cows full time,have ever since I was big enough to actually do any work.The hired hand makes more an hour than I do,I get all the $hit jobs,late hours,usually there an hour earlier than the help is in the morning,and ususlly there atleast a half hour later in the evening later than the help is too.I gave up a chance to go to colledge because my Dad has health concerns and never looked back.Don't blambe us because you got laid off,maybe you need to look in the mirror for that person buddy.

buickanddeere · Dec 18, 2008

I agree with Paul. Bailouts do more harm in the long run. If a company can't stand on it's own, it should fail and be replaced, rebuilt, absorbed, buried or what ever.

Dave F. · Dec 18, 2008

What jerks my chain, They want the auto worker's to take a pay cut.(the little guy) but they didn't ask for the manger's & supervisor's & other biggie wigs to take a pay cut. Fair is Fair. Dave F.

phillipd · Dec 18, 2008

The managment should be laid off and company sold it it really won't help

JML755 · Dec 18, 2008

(quoted from post at 00:11:06 12/18/08) I don't mind bailing out an industry when things go wrong.

I don't believe $25 billion will help - I hear it will take $125 billion or so to get them through. I believe the $25 billion will either be lost or used as a wedge to get more money. So this is about $125 billion in my mind, and it is hard to see it ever being repaid.

I think the auto industry was in trouble long ago, and they chose not to fix their problems. Both upper management & the unions share the blame on that.

I don't see what is going to change to make the auto industry a proud, workable thing. I see the $125 billion used as a crutch to get through the bad couple years, and business will be as usual. Same crippled buiness model as we have had for years. As a show of change in these difficult times, some changes will be made - mostly smaller parts places not part of the big 3 will end up farmed out to Mexico or Pasific Rim. So, the $125 billion will be used to get rid of more USA jobs, smaller towns across the USA will be hurt, & the figurehead big company heads & big union bosses will pretend all is well & continue on without becoming a better buisness.

That is the part of the bailout that bothers me.

If the money would be used to make a stronger, better, proud USA buisness return, I'd be in the front of the line to hand over the $125 billion - knowing it won't come back.

But.... Seems we are just going to throw money at bad leaders (on both sides, co & union) and continue on the same bad business plan. And that bothers me. All we get is a sour, poor business that is lurching along, not really successful or leading our ecconomy forward. More of a drag on the rest of us than a shining leader of industry....

So, it is a difficult issue. I'd understand helping the industry if it would do some good. But I fear it's just a money-hole, that does not return strength back to the USA.

Does it cure the illness, or just prolong it? In any case I feel for the workers, and for the suppliers of components. I think with or without the bailout, they will be hurt, and I wonder if these groups will be better off with or without the bailout in the long run?

--->Paul

Depends on what happens next year. If the recession/depression goes on and on (i.e. sales keep falling) and credit is still tight, the Big 3 WILL still be in big trouble along with a host of other industries in this country. The silver lining in the bailout is that it shines a light on the cushy union contracts that both sides (mgmt & union) agreed to. Plenty of blame on both sides of the table.

Just this morning, I heard on the radio that GM is writing $700 checks to union retirees that the union negotiated (and GM mgmt agreed to) as part of the last contract. Gonna cost GM $200 million, if I heard right. Any of you guys getting a $700 Christmas present from your old employer? Wait till Congress gets wind of that. Plus, GM is giving salaried retirees $300/month more starting in January to make up for them having to get their own health care (on top of Medicare). And the retirees are hopping mad!??!!! Any of you retired guys getting a $300/month raise next month? How many of you retired farmers get health care for life besides Medicare?

It's this kind of stuff that makes the country dead set against a bailout.

I know, I know, retired auto workers will respond with how they worked hard all those years in the plants or behind a desk. How they GAVE the Big 3 the BEST years of their lives. Hey, didn't retired farmers work hard? How about retired nurses? Retired carpenters and electricians? Etc, etc.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 18, 2008

it you are a farmer who laid you off???????

IndianaRed · Dec 18, 2008

The worst part, and something I never hear from people, is that the Federal government has no authority to do this. Nowhere in the Constitution are they given the power to do this. But neither can they take money from one person to give to another, regulate education, regulate environmental policy, and on and on and on.

Beginning with the Civil War, the Federal government has overstepped it's authority. Don't misunderstand, slavery was wrong, but nowhere in the Constitution was there authority for the Federal government to tell a State what it could or could not do.

Then we had FDR and the New Deal, LBJ and the Great Society, and now external_link wants a trillion dollar stimulus package. None of this is authorized by the Constitution, but we all stand by and do nothing.

Our democratic experiement has failed. The Founders would be aghast and ashamed. Then again, maybe not. I've read that many of them thought the Republic would only last 20-30 years. They knew the people would begin to vote themselves gifts from the treasury, and that the central/Federal government would become too powerful. They were right.

Not bad for a bunch of old, bigotted, racist, Christian, white men.

But we're so much more enlightened today.

O/T Bailout question

phillipd

Member

Eric SEI

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IH2444

Well-known Member

Jeff Oliver

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ArleninOr

Well-known Member

paul

Well-known Member

Tim B from MA

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JOE FARMER

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phillipd

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buickanddeere

Well-known Member

Dave F.

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phillipd

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JML755

Well-known Member

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

IndianaRed

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