OT .45 ACP

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

did you know that in 1940 singer sewing machine contracted to build 500 .45 ACP pistols , just a little bit of history, google, Singer pistols.

colekicker · Nov 22, 2008

Did you know that the Colt model 1911 .45 ACP competed with a 9mm pistol to become the standard issue pistol for the military. Some of the tests they did were on steers from a feedlot and human cadevours. I had to do a report on this in high school and it was very interesting.
What really puzzles me is how we decided on the .45 ACP in 1911 because of stopping power and now we us a 9mm pretty much everywhere.

Bill(Wis) · Nov 22, 2008

500 was all Singer built as compared to 400,000 each for Colt and Ithaca and 900,000 for Remington Rand. It would seem that the Singers would be a collector's prize but I'm not sure that is the case. I have a friend who owns 9 1911A1's and only one is a Remington but that's his favorite because of it's condition. I never owned one but carried them for over 30 years. My first one in 1954 was an Ithaca. That was my favorite because it was tight and obviously had seen little use. Most of them were worn out by excessive "disassembly and assembly" to keep troops occupied. Also, so many were made, approx 2.9 million, that the government simply stopped ordering them and made them up from existing parts.

Glen D Anderson · Nov 22, 2008

As I understand it the recoil of the 45 was too substantial for the majority of the users...........while a properly placed shot with a 22 in the tear duct will defintiely stop the fight, it's been proven time and time again an indivdual can take multiple hits in the torso from a 9mm and keep on going..........rarely will they keep up the fight if hit with a round of 45...................

I guess the establishment would rather have their officers shoot a weapon that wont hurt their wrist.............as Jeff Cooper often commented "another sign of the age of the wimp"

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

"Coopers Corner " was some of the best reading ever ! I truely miss it .

J.C.in AZ. · Nov 22, 2008

I carried a M1911A1 while active with the USMC 1955-1958 and it was one of those wore out WW2 and Korea hand me downs. My CO had the Armory test all our .45's by useing a Bench Vise to stabilize them and clamp affair to squeeze the trigger.At 25 yards my Pistol was all over the Target. Opinions were it was closer to .48 Cal. than .45 cal.I often wondered how many people or things that Pistol had Killed to become so wore out.It by the way was a Colt Mfg.Regardless, I and others were never issued new Pistol replacements and as we were not required to qualify on the Range with them so I guess they were more for show than use. The M1 Garand .30 Cal.however was a different story.This old Hill Billy qualified Marksman first year and Expert the next two years.

Bill(Wis) · Nov 22, 2008

Around the beginning of the previous century we were involved in the Phillipine-American War and the .38 cal hand held weapons of that era had insufficient stopping power as the Moro guerrillas would bind their torsos and limbs with green vines as a form of body armor. That, combined with their fierce fighting spirit and, some thought, drug induced bravery, made stopping them difficult and the .38 was just not up to it. It was found that the old Colt M1873 single action revolver in .45 caliber was up to the task. Ordinance then began pistol tests to select a new hand held weapon and the eventual result was the M1911. Political pressure from NATO in the late 1970's forced the US to test a new pistol designed for the NATO standard 9mm parabellum pistol cartridge. NOTE: THIS WAS THE SAME CARTRIDGE THAT HAD BEEN REJECTED BY THE US ARMY IN 1903. There have been plenty of complaints about the lame stopping power of the M9 (Beretta 92FS) but other than talk, little has been done except certain units (SOC, etc,) have equipped themselves with modern versions of the M1911A1.

Bill(Wis) · Nov 22, 2008

Your experience with the 1911 were shared by many. My experience was quite different because of an unusually high quality weapon. It shot really nice tight groups and I managed to fire expert on my first range firing. I was then assigned as an "assistant pistol instructor" even though I had done very little firing with it.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

not tractor related

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

One factor is intended user- most will NOT be using it regularly in a combat situation. The training time for a 9mm is less , accuracy is and stopping power are considered 'adequate' for the job intended- a personal protection/secondary weapon for close in use one handed- Ammunition availability is another concern. Penatration is another factor - the 9mm high velocity hard ball does usually have the advantage. Many other armies have wider issue of submachine guns than US with the M16 'one gun does most needs'. As noted the .45 will be used by some special units for their 'use on unarmored body' or suppressed needs- but they can put in the extra training to learn to use the .45 and get tigher,tapered barrel bushing on new fluted end barrels. Illinois state police years back adopted 9mm S&W 39 because of the 'shoot through car door/body panel' requirement- .45 hardball was sometimes known to bounce off doors when fired at angle, Cook County sherrifs deputy at shop noted problem and their use of hollowpoints as anti-ricochet round- they had minor feed problems with lead point hanging on unpolished feed ramps- but military usually can't use soft points,etc. 9mmx19 is army acceptable for most use compromise. Could take lesson from Spain and use 9mm Bergman/Largo- about like .38 super- but again the NATO standard ammo supply is a main consideration. US got .308 rifle as standard NATO round, later accepted 9mm pistol round- political compromise. RN

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

IHC made some M1s- that is the tractor link?

Goose · Nov 22, 2008

Troops in Iraq say if you shoot someone with a 9mm all you do is pizz them off. Plug them with a .45 and they're down.

I was once issued an M-1 made by International Harvester. Everyone commented on my Farmall rifle. Most .45's I carried for five years after that were Colts. At the time, whenever you changed duty stations, you turned your TO weapon in and checked out another at your new station. I did manage to qualify Expert with the .45 one time.

Bill-KCKs · Nov 22, 2008

Union Switch & Signal, manufacturers of railroad signals, made 55,000 M1911A1's during WWII..The US&S pistols are second only to the Singers for their rarity.

CWH · Nov 22, 2008

You are so wrong - in 23+ years of law enforcement, I had personal knowledge of criminal suspects taking mutiple hits with a .45 before they went down (1 suspect only went down after being hit 9 times after 14 rounds fired; one other down after being hit 3 times after 6 rounds fired). There are cases on record of individuals taking hits by 20mm rounds and living to tell about it. In other words, "it ain't what you hit him with, it's where you hit him". There have probably been more people killed with .22 cal rounds (at least in the U.S.) than any other round.

case441 · Nov 22, 2008

IBM also made weapons for the military during the big one, ww2, as a lot of other companys did. Cooper was right on everything. The 45 does not have that much recoil, i think a lot less than a 357 to me. God bless Mr. Cooper

brad

Bill in Colo · Nov 22, 2008

The coach of the 4th Army pistol team was assigned to the same unit as I wss at Ft Sill 66-68 our unit served as their armory. I was fortunate enough to have two 45's assigned to me, one to carry the other a national match to take to the range. No comparison in the way they would shoot.

Bill(Wis) · Nov 22, 2008

Sure. A friend of mine shot a Viet Cong through the fleshy part of the inner thigh with .45 ACP. The VC just stood there and looked at where he'd been hit. If it had struck the leg bone, it would have knocked him off his feet. I believe the comments from Iraq though. More than a few have reported less hitting power with the M9. If they're hitting any kind of body armor, unless it's at extremely close range where penetration is more likely, the .45 ACP will dominate.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 22, 2008

One of dads buddies was a tunnel rat. He never said much about it. One night i kept pouring him some blackberry brandy and he started telling about his time there . He carried a .38 revolver in the tunnels . Not sure why . But he ran into a guy , shot him , he kept coming, they fought pretty grueling hand to hand in the tunnel . He said he bit him in the throat and ripped the guys windpipe out . I had a new found respect for this lil guy all of 120 lbs soaking wet .

jose bagge · Nov 22, 2008

the M1 Garand was 30-06, wasn't it? a fine gun. However, every M1 carbine 30 cal I ever shot was hard pressed to put 3 rounds into a 4x8 sheet of plywood at 100 yards

jose bagge · Nov 22, 2008

in the 1960s my daddy traded a load of copper plumbing pipe for a Walther P-38 9mm and an Ithaca manufactured 1911 model 45. My brother got the P-38, I have the 45- dam near immaculate with original blueing and still a sweet shooting handgun.

moonlite 37 · Nov 22, 2008

I have an Union Switch and Signal. also a couple Remington Rand. and a Colt but have heard that a Singer is very rare and I have never seen one. I also have another made from GI parts on an Essex frame. The Essex is loose but still groups pretty good. I shot conventional pistol for 2 years

billonthefarm · Nov 23, 2008

I ended up with my grandads 1911 45. He was a army officer in the 6th us army and carried it as his sidearm. Its a Remmington Rand and he had it with him as they fought in the south pacific and for part of the occupation of Japan. Not the most valuable version of this gun but a priceless piece of family history.
bill

CWH · Nov 23, 2008

As applies to any hand-held or shoulder fired weapon (except maybe a rocket launcher), there is no thing as "knock down power". It is a person's reaction to getting shot that causes him reactb, and possibly fall. During the Viet Nam war there is a documented case where a VC took around 75 hits from everything from .38 to .50 (and everything between) before he decided to quit living and fall down. Things in the movies getting knocked flat when struck be a round is pure Hollywood BS. Rember: E=MC2 (For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction)

dave guest · Nov 23, 2008

Too bad you can't pick your own weapon in the military.

OT .45 ACP

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads