farm tractor transmission/pto

billimac bradley · Sep 3, 2008

in the early 1960"s were farm tractor pto"s inside the tractor transmission with the pto shaft exposed through the transmission case
to connect to an auxilliary implement, or were the pto"s separate units that could be attached
to the tractor transmission through a removable
hatch door?
if the pto was an integral part of the farm tractor transmission,could the shaft of an electric motor (the motor mounted on the tractor and not attached to the transmission case)be connected to the pto shaft? the electric motor could then be used to input electrical power into the transmission to move the tractor in a forward motion. the clutch would be disengaged and the electric motor would rotate the pto and the transmission gears and drive shaft to rotate the tractor wheels.
if this set-up can be done, would the OEM transmission warranty be violated and cancelled?

Tractor,Tractor · Sep 3, 2008

Probably, but why on earth would you want to? The torque rating of an electrical motor that would do you any good would make the motor huge.

Lanse · Sep 3, 2008

Im pretty sure theres no more warrenty after 40 years. Most tractors' pto was inside the tranny, infact i think they all were but there could be some orphan or other tractor that wasnt

billimac bradley · Sep 3, 2008

the HP rating of the electric motor will be 1 to 4 HP. the purpose is to move the tractor very very slow.

the "gut question" - can the electric motor shaft be connected to the pto shaft that is only slightly exposed out of the transmission case.

the motor would then provide the power to rotate the pto mechanism, the transmission mechanism, the drive shaft and the wheels of the tractor in a forward motion.

would this change in configuration revoke the
OEM manufacturer's warranty?

Lanse · Sep 3, 2008

i think i'd idle it down in first. You can go a little faster, even though you cant go up much of an incline or through anything.

glennster · Sep 3, 2008

as far as the warranty, you would need to ask the mfr. to move a tractor that way, prolly work ok. you will need to get a weld a hub for the 540 pto, and a fairly large belt pulley to weld to the hub, then use a small pulley on the electric motor. (gives you more torque, less speed. only downside is you wont be able to clutch out the transmission. when bush hogging without and overrunnning coupling, the spinning blade will drive the tractor forward, even with the clutch disengaged. you would need to pop the trans out of gear.

KEB1 · Sep 3, 2008

If its a live (available any time the engine is running) PTO that drives directly off the engine, probably not. If its an older design PTO that drives off of the transmission input shaft (PTO has no power to it when normal clutch is disengaged), then it could probably be done with some work.

Be aware that the standard speed on older PTO's is 540 RPM, so you'd have to gear the motor down to that speed, then use the gear shift to select how fast the tractor rolls.

Also, on a non-live PTO, the PTO output shaft is mechanically connected to he engine via the transmission input shaft and the clutch. Unless you have a way to either hold the clutch disengaged, or disconnect the clutch output shaft from the transmission input, whatever electric motor you use to move the tractor will also be spinning the engine over.

Seems like a lot more trouble than its worth, unless there's some compelling reason.

Keith

Anonymous-0 · Sep 3, 2008

I've seen several tractors of that era with Wisconsin engines mounted on the front where weights are attached and driving a belt to the wide belt pulley to add horsepower.
This sounds like you want it for minor moving not plowing all day.

twopop · Sep 3, 2008

I dont understand the warranty question.if you were trying to do this on a tractor of today IT CANT BE DONE. any tractor that it could be done on is out off warranty.if this were 1950 an you did it on a 1950 farmall.yes it would void the warranty, since it would be using the tractor in a manner that it was not designed for

Anonymous-0 · Sep 3, 2008

Good thing somebody told me one time there is no such thing as a dumb question. I,m with you twopop cant, figure out how a 40 or 50 year old tractor would have waranty.. but keep him going I have some long extension cords for sale.. Benn in ag 45 yeears and this is the first time I have ever had this question.. Did have a fellow mount a wisconsin in a pickup bed trailer and connect it to pto to get high road speeds. Worked alright till he made a sharp turn one afternoon. Turned the mess over ring in the road.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 3, 2008

Courious why you would want to use a electic motor that requires a power cord on a farm tractor?

buickanddeere · Sep 3, 2008

Please explain clearly what you mean and intend.DC motor operated from batteries? Are you running this generator from a engine mounted alternator.

RobMD · Sep 3, 2008

Uh... it really sounds like a marvelous idea gone HORRIBLY WRONG.

There are no benefits to this "set-up" you have, unfortunately, seeing as it can't be done in the first place.

And why would a 40 year old tractor have a WARRANTY??

430WLPG · Sep 3, 2008

It states in all tractor warranties that I have seen say any modification to said machine, the warranty is VIOD!

paul · Sep 3, 2008

Some tractors need to be running to move them - there are shafts inside the tranny that need to be lubricated. Without the engine running and the tractor rolling, it burns up the bearing surfaces with lack of oil. You would need to know which tractor you are dealing with.

Old tractors from the 1960's do not have warrenties any more, so there is nothing to worry about there.

On old non-live pto tractors, your idea could be made to work, but like others, I've no idea what good would come of it.

--->Paul

Anonymous-0 · Sep 3, 2008

Are you intending to use the tractor in some kind of transplanting/vegetable harvesting or manual weeding operation which requires such a slow speed? Might be satisfactory if you don't do heavy draft work. Adequate driveline gear/bearing lubrication could be a concern.

steveormary · Sep 3, 2008

Now,aint that a good one. I am inclined to think it wont work. Dont know what you would power your elect. motor with. Well,mabe the tractor engine. The pto mabe geared up too much to run the drive wheels thru the pto.

steveormary

Anonymous-0 · Sep 4, 2008

It can be done as the pto shaft is long enough to be driven by any external source you would care to use. I-H used the hy pump to move a tractor thru the tranny by connecting to the pto. This was used to move the tractor very slow. No reason why an electric motor could not be used for the same purpose. You will need a gear set-up from the electric motor to reduce the electric motors speed as you dont want the 540 speed on the pto.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 4, 2008

Yes it could be done as I-H used a hy motor thru the pto for ground speed. You will need a speed reduction something to slow the out-put of the electric connected to the pto as you dont want the pto running very fast like maybe 100 rpm. It sure could be done.

olddog · Sep 4, 2008

I read somewhere of an individual that used a small Briggs (mebbe) motor, on the PTO, to drive an old tractor with a dead engine, out of the bush.
Most PTO's are designed to endure full power/torque continuously, so that's not an issue. Lubrication might be, depending on the configuration of the trans.
Do not understand the warranty issue, at all, related to an old tractor.

teddy52food · Sep 4, 2008

What are you going to power the motor with? 1 to 4 HP would barely move the empty tractor. What are you trying to pull?A self propelled lawn mower has about 3 HP. How does this compare?

Anonymous-0 · Sep 4, 2008

I have a dim memory of an article in FarmShowMagazine where someone did a similar thing with an Oliver tractor. Was used on a trencher ? that required a very slow ground speed. Had to lock down the clutch, don't remember what was used to power forward motion. Check their archives.

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