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OT Selling trees for pulpwood?

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Hey guys,
I have a guy coming to our property tomorrow to look at our trees. We only have about 7 wooded acres, but he is interested in cutting it for pulpwood/lumber. I don't want it clear cut. Ideally, i just want it thinned so me and my wife can take nice walks through it. And hopefully make some money in the process. Is this realistic thinking on my part?

The woods is a mix of hardwoods and soft, mostly soft.

What questions should I ask the guy coming to look at the trees?

Thanks much,
Marc
 
make him put it in writing that he is responsible for clean up at least piling the tops in a certain place.Had the 21 acres of mine cut and the guy started to pile up but then pulled his equip. out and never returned make sure you get receipts on the logs when he pays you you may have to pay taxes on it unless he goes through a broker and don't have to name the tract.
 
Years ago my father sold both hardwood (sweetgum and oak) and softwood (pine) for pulpwood.

The timber crew damaged two earth terraces by cutting a path to "skid" logs.

They dropped trees on the fences.

They dropped trees and did not move or cut them.

They trashed the farm with empty oil buckets, tires, and beer cans.

I finally ran them off the farm.

The overall mess that they left took about 2-3 years to clean up.

I would have paid my dad twice what they paid him had I known the work involved to clean up their mess.

Nancy and I will never sell another tree off our farm as long as we both live.

Sorry for the vent.

Keep in mind this is your property, your trees and any tree thinning will be done your way.

You will clearly paint/mark only those trees to be cut.

Be sure to mark low on the stump; not on the trunk.

You will be paid for the timber before any tree is cut.

All equipment will enter and exit your property where you determine.

All damages to any property will be paid as it occurs.

Write all of your requirements in a contract.

Hope this helps.
 
With all those restrictions he will never find anyone who will cut the trees. Logging is a messy job with no room for being spotlessly clean. They use large equipment to get in and out and to push the waste in piles for burning. It takes a few years for the ground to recover but the clearing of smaller trees and brush is worth it. There are people who will select cut but they still need to drag the trees out to the loading area.
Walt (From the Oregon logging country.)
 
1) make sure he shows you a copy of his workers comp and liabilty insurance. Then call and make sure it is still inforce. VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!!
2) decide if you are going to sell by the board foot or lump sum. If by the board foot you want to see the weight ticket from the mill for each load.
3) go over what is saw logs; plywood logs; and pulp wood. All grades pay differant amounts.
4) if selling by the foot tell him you want the pulp wood hauled off first. more than one cutter has been know to cut the high priced saw logs and then move out leaving the cheep pulp wood there.
5) decide who cleans up. this will affect the price. some will do a total clean up but you get nothing for the logs. some do not want to do any clean up at all.
6) the log loader or skidder does not leave your site till the final check is in your hand.
7) get several quotes. might even stop by a local yard and see what they will give you if you were to cut and haul. This will show you where you stand even if you do not intend on doing the cutting.
 
James is absolutely right. No timber will be commercially cut of our farm EVER!

When they were cutting, I saw the trunk of a very large oak they just left. It was at least 8 ft long and over 2 ft in diameter. They would drop a tree, trim the limbs, take the trunk and leave the limbs where they fell. They dropped trees on the fences and just left them laying on the fence. James' dad had just had a new barbed-wire fence put up and they twisted the wire up so they could get through and never put it back.

One area where they cut is such a mess, I can't get through it on my best trail horse. To make it useful, we would have to hire someone to come in and bulldoze it.

It was, and in some places, still is a mess.
 
When I sold my timber the check came from the mill as far as I know that's the way it is here in Oregon. Remember the taxes will kill you.
Walt
 
"With all those restrictions he will never find anyone who will cut the trees"
You're probably right, and I don't know why anybody would let a logger near their property. We've had several come out any price our wood, I told them I guess it can grow another ten or twenty years. But they keep callin, wonder why.
If you're selling pulp, the mills around here have the grinders come in for free to get it out of their way.
Was told by their representative that they couldn't guarantee where a tree fell, I'll give them that but I've dropped trees in drive ways, through gate openings, etc. Basically told they're going to come in and tear up the place.
Pine is pretty cheap, $.15 a board foot and if they come and get it $.08. Only way to come out is have a portable cut it into boards for your own use.
 
I cannot stress point #7 by John in la enough.

7) get several quotes. might even stop by a local yard and see what they will give you if you were to cut and haul. This will show you where you stand even if you do not intend on doing the cutting.

This is the most important part. Be sure to tell each company that you are having other companies bid on the timber also.

I have had good luck with loggers for the most part. You have to realize it is a messy business and they will leave tops where the trees are cut. You will have to question each company as to what size trees they are quoting you on and where on the tree that measurement is taken. Tops are dangerous to haul out of the woods and most companies will not do it. Ask around for other people who have had their land logged to get an idea of who the better loggers are. You also need to realize that some trees are $100 logs and some are $1000 logs and it is hard to tell the difference. You may want to consult a Forester to get an accurate idea of the type of logs you have.

If possible have the logging done during the winter. Winter logs are worth more.
 
No matter what they tell you, they will clear cut your land. It's how they work. If you want to run a pulpwood farm, take their offer and get a contract for replanting. If you want a forest, keep the one you have.
 
If your local extension office has a forester, ask them for a recommendation for someone to "cruise" or estimate the yield and value of your timber. It's kind of an art.
 
Hey, thanks for all the great information. It sounds like I better tread VERY carefully with our little woods.

Thanks much,
Marc
 
Our foresters couldn't tell you a value, they could identify the tree and an estimate board foot. They had a recommended list of cling-ons that were brokers/ex-foresters/loggers. These people would be your middle man. All it looked like to me was one more crook holding his hand out.
 
Unless you are in the right part of the country, there aren't going to be any competent people to represent you. I think you're right about the one more hand out comment.
 
I agree with everything every one has posted. If you have a market for firewood you might come out, except on the soft wood.

Logging is a messy business. Some in Michigan use horses and arches, which helps, but it's still messy. I've been doing timber stand improvements (TSI) opening the woodlot up so it's easier to get around. Maybe, for college/retirement I may have it logged, but not before I'm done enjoying it. One section of woods has an average age of over 100. Once they're gone, they won't be replaced in my lifetime.

Larry in Michigan

Larry
 
This is hardly the time to cut wood if you want a return from it. The pulpwood business has been stumbling along trying to find a bottom for the past two years and mostly the only ones cutting wood anymore are the contractors that owe too much to stop or they'll lose it all and the independants that don't know how to do anything else. That's what you're dealing with. Anyone with other options has LEFT that racket for the time being.
When dealing with pricing on pulp right now you're going to either get a good price and not get paid for many cords or a poor price and get paid for what leaves (mabey). If you think they're going to selective cut (waste their time) and clean up (burn their bread money), think again.
If you want a nice looking stand with trails, buy yourself a saw and cut some trails. If you want to sell wood, wait until the price comes up again. Unless the wood is falling down, it's not costing you anything to leave it stand.

Rod
 
Don't do it. They will destroy your 7 little acres. Utterly destroy it.

The neighbors on either side of us just finished logging out about 200 trees each, and I have never seen such a dangerous mess in all my life.
 
I live in VA also and did this. Bet ya he wants to pay a percentage by weight or board feet of what he gets. WRONG APPROACH.
Hire a timber broker! First he will advise you how to do this. If he takes it on he will survey the plot and then auction the timber off. Then supervise the cutting. AND you can have a select cut where only greater then or smaller then a set size are cut. Under these conditions the cutter is responsible for damage to uncut tress--within reason.
Good Luck
 
Prices are way down right now. If you could hold out till the house'n market bounces back would be money in your pocket.

If you have 7 acres, most loggers are not going to haul thier skidder out just to thin it out some.

Seems like every thing I say on here some one says is illegal, but here you don't have to have a permit to cut your own trees. I have cut logs out of storm damage and hauled it to the saw mill my self. A stout 16' trailer and a beefy boom pole are all you need besides a chain saw. Cut out a path your self, sell what the mill'l take and use/sell the rest for firewood.

I have marked enough trees to cut off ditch banks and feince lines that I am figure'n on haul'n logs most of the winter.

Just an idea.

Dave
 
WOW!!i buy trees in indiana on apprx. 50 + landowners a year & have been for the past 30 years.. i had no idea that nobody wanted me back on their property, they must forget hoe bad it looks cause after 10 to 15 years a lot have called wanting another harvest & MONEY..
with 7 acres you might just hire a buldozer or skidsteer and make a nice little hiking trail..

instead of shooting the guy with the checkbook coming to look at your woodlot ,ya might ask him to give you the location of his last 4 or so logging jobs that are somewhat close to your property, then go look at a couple.. i could go on all night on moving & piling tops left from felling timber, the tops lay where there fall, real damage comes when ya start pulling & pushing tops around. Different logging practice may apply in your area depending on the size of trees being harvested, pine (softwoods) being completely managed different that large hardwood trees. i hope i didn't go off too much, bad apples come in every profession, get a good apple best wishes TreeBoy
bs in forest production Purdue Jan1970
 
First slow down!!!! A landowner in a rush is a pocket to be picked.
Second, get the advice of a State Forester or good consultant.
Third, have a written contract that you have fully thought through with professional advice.

Bottom line is that for a good timber sale and for a sustainable forest over the long haul the harvest if any depends on the type of trees, the site capability and a host of other items that you need a professional for.

Keep in mind that a professional can add money to your pocket by getting a much better price than a landowner can on his own. A consulting forester can also screen out most of the bad operators which gives you a much better chance at a satisfactory experience.

Keep in mind that I have even seen experienced lawyers get taken by the marginal timber operators. Advice from a professional forester would have saved him thousands!!
 
This is my first post on this forum. I felt compelled to respond. Like many others, my experience with loggers has been terrible.

In my case, prior to cutting, we agreed that only marked trees would be cut. The logger went ahead and cut many, many unmarked trees anyway. He probably thought that, after they had been cut, there was nothing I could do.

After I saw what he had done, I objected, and he immediately took off with his equipment, leaving all of the downed trees and mess. He even left a couple of standing trees with notches cut into them. It took me 2 to 3 years to clean it all up at my expense.

Needless to say, I will never, ever, again allow a logger on my property.
 
Keep your trees,with fuel prices going nuts you may need them for heat.Ive cut firewood with an axe and a bowsaw and a cut down Model A Ford.Dry firewood is selling for 200.00 to 275.00 a cord here.I have cut wood from my land for 43 years and there are no destroyed areas.The brush is piled and rots away.I have been cutting logs for my sawmill for 5 years with out destroying the forest.The land beside me has been cut over by loggers, the mess they leave and the wood they waste is pretty bad.Pulpwood is sold by weight and ground up.The lots are being stripped clean.Go look at cutover land and see if you want your land to look the same.
 
Pine and hemlock boards will cost 40 cents per board foot in the rough here at small sawmills At Home Depot dressed white pine is 3.00 to 5.00 a BF.Poplar runs 4.50 per BF.In general, lumber is worthless until you have to buy it.
 
> If possible have the logging done during the
> winter. Winter logs are worth more.

Probably doesn't matter for pulpwood, but be careful about logging hardwoods in the winter. Splitting a veneer red oak as it falls because it's frozen is an often repeated tragedy.
 
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