OT-Old's Red haired Boy

Old, Thank-you so much for your service to OUR country....And thank your son too for being man enough to do his part.
Skybow USAF/AFANG

Your very welcome. I my self believe if you follow all your life your lost. If you lead then you loose others so be some one that neither follows or leads but do you own thing. Keep your eyes open your mouth shut and you will learn more then if you open your mouth and shut your eyes and ears. Open minds do more learn more and go for what can only be dreamed of thats why we have cars, truck, tractors and all the other nice stuff that was not 100 years ago
Hobby farm

I want to thank you also for your service,and your son for his courage to go on into a military lifestyle at this point in time.
There was a time in Viet Nam, hair, skin color, or nationality was not a factor in proving the virtue of a man. I suspect he will do well,after all look who raised him.

Just got around to reading all this about the hair, etc.
I've been a Shop teacher since 1974 and just came home from the first day of school today.
Your son's hair color has nothing to do with his abilty to learn. In the High School I teach at and have been for 17 years I've seen every hair color and style you can think of. When the staff arrived last week I noticed a teacher about my age was obiviously using some type of remove the grey color stuff on his hair. Looked like a fool as far as I'm concerned but that's his choice.
Point is the school is dead wrong on this. Administrators need to worry about real issues and learning not your son's appearance. I know he has the right to wear his hair anyway he wants. Take a look at your states Education code and see what rules there are regarding this. Also look at the schools dress code. I'm in California where they are certainly more abundant than your area. I'm not sure where to send you to look into this but I hope you fight them on this.
I've taught thousands of kids and have long since learned that their appearance, race, religion have nothing to do with who is a good or bad kid.
My school has increased it's test scores every year since they started all this testing. It happens because of good teachers and hard working kids. Their appearance has nothing to do with it.
Good luck on this and if I can answer any questions post up on here.

Finally a voice of reason by someone who actually works in a school to teach kids, not judge them. Dave

I wish my schools where that open minded on thing so small as hair color. He did have to change it to fit there rules which I think is bad but when you live in back wards ville you have to put up with stupid closed minded people. Even the ACLU would not step in because all students where made to change there hair to meet the closed minded school people. If I was rich in more then just name I might fight it but I'm only rich in name

Thank you very very much. This last 24 hours has been a hard one on me because I try to fight for what I feel is right but so many seem to want to kick out our freedom as a little thing like hair color

Yes so many people do not understand if we do not stand behind our kids and there choice we give into the gov. and them taking away one more of the many freedoms they are slowly taking away with every new law they make
Hobby farm

Old,

I followed the previous posts and did not weigh in on the discussion, but will add my thoughts now if that is OK.

I spent my working career of 32 years as a high school science teacher (Biology and Physics). In a suburban school of about 2500 kids. I had the full spectrum of lazy and didn't care, all the way up to high achievers enrolled in my Advanced Placement Physics (who at the end of the year could test out for a full year of college physics credit). I was dept head for 13 years, leading a dept of 12 science teachers. Point I'm making is: I've probably seen it all.

In working with kids, and especially Seniors, they want to try some new and different things. Usually the brighter kids are more willing to stray from the "normal". They have more self confidence and are more willing to accept others who are also "different". Conducting classes with such groups is like being in charge of the Kentucky Derby. You can encourage them to do their best, and often that is better than even I could imagine. Or you can crush their spirit, and they will run the race just like any other $200 20 year old horse. I truely enjoyed encouraging them to stretch their legs and go for the big prize. It really made teaching fun.

Now the part about rules and school administrators... The brightest of teachers generally enjoyed being damm good classroom teachers. The not so brightest (and thus burned out teachers) went to a couple of summer school classes and some night classes and put on the "sport coat" of Vice Principal or the "suit" of Principal. They would begin our late August teacher workshop with "this year we have 50 new rules, and you all are obligated to enforce them". Then I would rise up from the body of 100 teachers and loudly (to wake up anyone who had already fallen asleep) ask what 50 old rules are we getting rid of, because we already have too many rules. We had rules about the most pickyune stuff! Everyone had to follow the rules or be punished! Well I had enough seniority that couldn't just get rid of me, and I had enough respect among the parents that they would raise heck with the administrators for me when needed. So we sorta got along, their low level of respect for me was mutual.

Now on to the kids... Some of my brightest kids would show up with pink, red, green, blue, blond, orange or jet black hair. I usually met the kids at the classroom door as they came to class a minute or so early. I would make a positive comment on their new hair color, or some article of clothing or jewelry that seemed nice or a new notebook, or some sport or play that they had been successful at. Point is I made coming to class a positive experience, they felt welcome. I usually began the class with some joke or piece of humor, and invited the kids to bring their jokes or humor. This was good for about 30 to 45 seconds, the kids would have a good laugh (or groan!), and would be relaxed a bit and we would get into the heady business of Physics. School rules "everybody has to be in their seat at the end of the bell ringing". I didn't have to enforce a stupid "get on their case" rule that puts the kid in a punitive situation, and projects a negative attitude in the classroom. The kids knew the 1st half minute was "the joke" time and if they were late they totally missed out. A portion of humor is related to its timing, so I never repeated anything for a late comer. The others in the class knew that we were headed right into the lesson, so the "once only" late-comer had to wait for the lunch hour with his or her buddies to find out what everyone was laughing about when they walked in. Point is... rules are made up to "solve problems" that minds with NO creativity can't solve any other way. I anticipated possible problems and tried to solve them with creativity, and respect for my students. Besides it made a much better day for me too. And by June, I had some pretty great students, some of them pulling a full "5" on the AP physics exam.

About your son... he is just experimenting with his own self confidence. Be very thankful it is being expressed with his "daring" hair color. Some kids do their experimenting through s@x, drugs, alcohol, shoplifting, assault of others, and now...guns. As my wife's cousin explained to a group of disapproving relatives about her son's and daughter's extreme hair colors: "It's hair, for God's Sake! Later in life my son will probably be bald just like his Dad. He may as well celebrate and enjoy it now while he still has hair."

Good luck with the school administrators.

Your son will have increased his respect for you for helping and understanding him.

Paul in MN

PS. I had 5 kids go through public school, and 8 grandkids starting their educational journeys. I have been at both sides of the teacher's desk.

Good grief, what a bunch of abundant nonsense. You call it being open minded, I disagree, seems more like empty minded. Do you really believe that parents need to stand behind there kids in situations like this? Well it appears you actually do, seems kind of foolish to me. If a kid does something stupid, most people with common sense would say, well you made the decision, now live with the consequences of it. But I guess not you, blame the big old mean government because your kid made a decision to look like Bozo in public. I don't care what some left nut court has ruled, choosing to color your hair and go out in public has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with wanting to stand out like a clown. So by your line of thinking, anyway a kid in school chooses to look is ok since it is a freedom guarenteed in the Bill of Rights, I am glad you are not in my school district. So how would you feel if your innocent angel decided to go one step further and wore a dress and heels to school. Yea would be kind of stupid wouldn't it, but "he's just having one last fling" right? I think maybe you need to grow a backbone and tell your kid to grow up and get ready to face the real world, cuz theres still some of us good old boys out here that still call a freak a freak. I am sure your thinking I am some old fuddy duddy but not the case, I am 33 yo but when my parents raised me I was taught the difference between right and wrong. I don't know about your dad but my grandfather was a preacher in the Nazarene church all his life and would roll over in his grave if I did something as foolish as your son did. I just can't figure out which is worse, your boy acting like a clown or you defending him.

OLD,

There was a story this morning on Springfield's MO Channel 3 about a girl that was banned from school in I think Mountain Grove for PINK Hair. See colored her hair pink in rememberance of her Father who had died of brain cancer. A ACLU Lawyer wroted the school board a letter and all of a suddent they said the ban was ALL a misunderstanding

If Old is proud of his dyed redheaded boy, so be it.
If the boy gets respect at school(not attention) then it should be fine. I dont think either one of these exist. Proud and respect are the key words..

Sounds like you where a jook in school the ones that never did stand out and went along with the bull.

The young man died his hair back to a normal color and went back to school. He could have won if he had gone to court but a big part of his senior year would be lost. He learned a lesson about when to fight and when to let go.

What part of the story is hard to understand?

I guess you would have criticized those guys for dumping all that tea into Boston Harbor, too.

usetobesteve, you've got a problem!!!

Old, your son learned a lesson in when to fight and when to let go. Sometimes it's not worthwhile to prove you are right even when you are. We needed military people like him when they sent troops to guard prisoners in Iraq. There are too many guys on this board who would seem to think it is ok to abuse prisoners if everyone else is doing it.

How do you decide what hair color is acceptable? Women, especially, are always coloring their hair and putting different colored streaks in it. Why is that acceptable? I don't think your parents taught you right from wrong. They passed on their believes to you about being closed minded and not having any tolerance for something that is different than the norm. Maybe Old's son just wanted to have a little fun. Did it really hurt anyone and was it really so morally wrong that Old and his son should be made out like such poor excuses of people. I don't think so. You'd think they commited a terrible crime or something. Dave

I have a question.

Have you noticed, in your 17 years of teaching, ANY correlation AT ALL between a students appearance(dress, grooming, etc.) and their attitude towards learning in general?

Thanks in advance,

Glen

That's funny, I would have to say all of the kids that did odd stuff like die their hair to get attention back in my class are either in jail or work at gas stations.

LOL, what a nonsense response, evidently you don't remember learning what the Boston Tea Party was really about, it was about people protesting being taxed without fair representation. The act of dumping all the British Tea in the Harbor was how the colonist showed England that they wanted their voice to be heard.
Now if you can make the huge mental jump from that to some clown coloring his hair so he would stand out, and then he and daddy being flabbergasted that there were consequences, you have a better imagination than I do. Actually I would be embarressed to make a comparison from what the colonist did to this situation. This kid wasn't standing up for anything, let alone any inherent right, he was just trying to make himself noticed because evidently he has no other way to do it.

How do you know why the kid colored his hair? Maybe he was just having some fun? I don't know. I didn't ask him. A lot worse things have been done in schools than a kid coloring his hair a color that some people don't approve of. Dave

This kid wasn't standing up for anything, let alone any inherent right, he was just trying to make himself noticed .......

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BINGO !

(quoted from post at 00:50:57 08/26/08) Good grief, what a bunch of abundant nonsense. You call it being open minded, I disagree, seems more like empty minded. Do you really believe that parents need to stand behind there kids in situations like this? Well it appears you actually do, seems kind of foolish to me. If a kid does something stupid, most people with common sense would say, well you made the decision, now live with the consequences of it. But I guess not you, blame the big old mean government because your kid made a decision to look like Bozo in public. I don't care what some left nut court has ruled, choosing to color your hair and go out in public has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with wanting to stand out like a clown. So by your line of thinking, anyway a kid in school chooses to look is ok since it is a freedom guarenteed in the Bill of Rights, I am glad you are not in my school district. So how would you feel if your innocent angel decided to go one step further and wore a dress and heels to school. Yea would be kind of stupid wouldn't it, but "he's just having one last fling" right? I think maybe you need to grow a backbone and tell your kid to grow up and get ready to face the real world, cuz theres still some of us good old boys out here that still call a freak a freak. I am sure your thinking I am some old fuddy duddy but not the case, I am 33 yo but when my parents raised me I was taught the difference between right and wrong. I don't know about your dad but my grandfather was a preacher in the Nazarene church all his life and would roll over in his grave if I did something as foolish as your son did. I just can't figure out which is worse, your boy acting like a clown or you defending him.

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This is not a matter of right and wrong, it is a matter of a kid being a kid. It won't last forever, so IMO it isn't worth losing any sleep over.

You can guess what ever you wish to but my family taught me to set myself apart by my actions, just in my family the actions that were encouraged were to be a good student, a leader and a reliable worker, not to get noticed by looking like a clown. I was able to do that by my service in class leadership, 4H and FFA activities and head of the class grades. I got noticed by all the offices I held in the FFA, all the way to the State level. I got noticed by doing part time preaching in our church and district before I was even out of high school. I got noticed by my schoolmates in a way I never really expected. In my senior year while I was in DC, representing our state REC, sitting down with our Legislators talking about how the deregulation of electrical service would affect rural constituents, back home my classmates voted and I was elected senior class treasurer, even without me being there to give a speech like the other two candidates did. I got noticed by not doing the stuff the rest of the "open minded" crowd tried. I got noticed by graduating from High school by my 17th birthday and from MSU with a degree in dairy management by the time I was 20, and being home and starting my own dairy farm that same year.
Guess my parents taught me a different way of standing out, but if you want to encourage your kids to stand out by looking like a freak, have at it, just be ready for the results of those actions.

I completely agree, it is a goofy stunt that a kid did, and hopefully when he gets in the military he will learn better ways to be noticed. What bothers me is that daddy made such an issue of it that he stated he wished he had the money so he could sue the school so what his kid did is the norm. That is what I had a problem with. I don't think what the kid did is a moral right and wrong issue, what I think is the moral issue is that pops doesn't have the bones to tell the kid that he now has to deal with the results of his decision. But that isn't the way it was handled, Old made the school out to be the bad guy because his kid acted like a knothead.

Too bad, with all the good stuff you have accomplished, you did not learn to accept others. Somehow you have come to the conclusion (as evidenced by a few contributions to this thread) that your success at a young age gives you the right to judge and demean others. I'm sorry, but that is a flaw that will hold you back from achieving your full potential. Yes, you learned at a young age what a wonderful set of opportunities this democracy made available to you, but a democracy only works at its best when we show respect for others. Like it or not, they have the same power in their vote as you do. If you want to be more successful in swaying the opinions of others towards what you believe, you need to accept their lifestyle choices first and work from a positive point of view. Being judgemental and demeaning cuts off any conversation that could advance your point of view. You will be in a small group with no agenda other than promoting "we are so good, we can judge all others". And that is a very poor and limited goal in life.

Paul in MN

I have a question or two; has anyone explained that the tests from ACT on down have been"dumbed down", has anyone told you that teachers now "teach the test" in order to keep the schools off a watch list ???

Oh, my goodness. You're trying to make one injustice different from another since you approve of the one but not the other.
I'd suggest you look up the term "special pleading" since it relates directly to your "...but that's different, you don't understand..." comment. There is a fundamental difference between paying a little tax and keeping your hair a normal color, but it's nothing like what you had in mind.

The one I know the most about is a college graduate and successful real estate broker. The other one died in an accident.

The only one from my class just retired as a postmaster.

Very well stated, Paul! Just because someone was a part time preacher doesn't give them the right to judge people. Actually, I always thought that god didn't judge people either. Dave

I answered your question right here. "I've taught thousands of kids and have long since learned that their appearance, race, religion have nothing to do with who is a good or bad kid."

That's based on teaching since 1974.

Thanks for the reply,

I'd read what you wrote, I didn't ask if there was a correlation between the appearance of a student and whether they were a "good" or "bad" kid. I asked if there was a correlation between the appearance of a student and their attitude towards learning.

To clarify, a student or any individual for that matter that has a poor attitude towards learning is not necessarily a bad person.

It seems more often than not that the type of people who tend to be defiant towards the "establishment"(ie school)with displays of non-compliance with the rules have priorities that lie in other areas than actually obtaining an education. However, there are undoubtly exeptions. These people are more concerned with "being heard" or "being seen" or "having made a statement" that they've lost track of why they are actually at school in the first place, to obtain an education............

Ask yourself this, or beter yet ask your students, how many of them dyed their hair red, blue, pink, yellow, etc. because they loved the color and had desire to do so for most of their life. Then ask them how many of them dyed their hair because it was against the rules or because they wanted to be "cool" like the others who had "gone against the grain"

I believe it is important to stand up for individual rights and the rights of others. If there are issues that are preventing an individual from succeeding in any walk of life due to race or religion, I believe those issues need to be dealt with.

I believe it boils down to one thing, is it worth fighting for? To expand, does not dying you hair prevent you from obtaining an education? Does not dying your hair prevent you from developing worthwhile friendships at school?

To close, have you spent so much time and expended that much effort proving to the "establishment" why you should be able to have dyed hair , long hair, or no hair at all that you forgot to listen to what the teacher was saying or study for your test? Are you working at a job that is beneath your ability but on par with your education because you were intent on proving "them" wrong? For something as trivial as hair color, I hope not!

BTW, shop class was my favorite..........

Glen

I think the young man in question is smarter than most of the yahoos on here. He died his hair back to a normal color and went back to school.