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New Ford 250 Power Stroke....good grief

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Friend of mine bought a new Power Stroke about 3 months ago. He had an engine sensor go bad on it so he took it back to Ford. They said a week because they had to order parts.
I took him by there Saturday to see if it was done and the poor guy about passed out. They had the entire cab off it. They said they cannot get to the engine due to the twin turbos and the only way in there is to pull the cab off.
I hope he gets rid of it before the warranty is out.
Guess I will just keep my old Dodge. Never heard of such a thing.
 
That's unreal!

I just pulled a fender off a Chevy pickup because it was the easiest way to work on a broken wire in the door jamb, but that's ridiculous.
 
I have a friend Ford diesel Mechanic, when this new generation of the PWR Stroke came out he was feeling like you are. He said you would not believe how many simple things require cabin movement. Good news is much better engine/less trouble than previous versions.
 
I was reading on one of the diesel discussion boards where a guy had a new one ton where the turbo oil drain tube oring was misinstalled and it leaked. Yup, had to pull the cab to replace it. That meant drain all fluids and discharge/recharge the A/C. 18 hours of labor just to replace a $1.50 part.

BUYER BEWARE....if you absolutely MUST by a Superduty, buy the best damn extended warranty you can.
 
Yes, if you have to do anything more than oil and filters, you're raising the cab. I'm glad I switched to a GM dealer from Ford. My former co workers say the twin turbo engine is much better than the miserable 6.0. The 6.0 was entirely engineered by Navistar. The 6.4 was designed by Ford and only built by Navistar.
The worst thing I have to deal with on a Duramax would be replacing the turbo. Anything else can be reached from above or through the fender wells.
 
If it was for something major like replacing the engine, I would be more cool with it. But it seems like they need to pull the cab for any rinky dink repair. Sure makes the old 12 valve Cummins look all the better.
 
That just aint right. having to remove the cab just to replace a sensor.
I agree, get the best darn warrenty you can.
 
The 6.4 is designed and built by Navistar and is used in many of their trucks, busses and industrial applications with the single turbo set up under the MaxxForce 7 name. Ford speced the twin turbo set up for their pickups.

The next diesel engine that goes into Ford pickups might be a Ford design - although Navistar sued Ford for "stealing" their design for a smaller diesel intended for the F150.


http://www.apics.org/APICS/Resources/ViewArticle.aspx?articleId=20070607/knightridder2007060700001371TBFORDNAVISTARSUIT20070607EDIT.xml
 
Gee Bill,

You're makin' me feel bad. :>(

Allan

haulin.JPG
 
Sorry Allan...didn't even think about it until I saw your picture showing the windshield. Hope yours is not a twin turbo.
 
Yeah, it's a 6.4.

Only trouble I have is with those darned draftin' semis. Think that is somewhat rude. :>)

Allan
 
go's back to what my father said before he passed away in 1976 (we are educating some of these youngsters beyond thier inteligence)
a better idea
 
Ah, to return to the simpler days of the Chevy Vega, where you merely had to pull the engine to change the spark plugs. I guess "idiot engineering" has been with us for awhile.
 
My buddys Super Duty just had the second set of head gaskets put in at 53K miles. Yep had to pull the cab.


OT but you're going to find alot of pi$$ed Ford folks in the near future. Google spark plug problems on the 5.4 Triton engines from 1999-2003. Two piece plugs are breaking pretty regularly. $400 to replace the plugs at the dealer. $3000 plus if the plugs break off or strip out the head. Many engines are just blowing the plugs out of the head while driving as apparently there are only 3 threads holding several plugs. And on the trucks it's a cab off move. Don't know what they do to the Expeditions. Sorry I ever bought mine. :(
 
I can't imagine how painful that job will be once the truck has a few winters worth of salt and sand exposure and starts to rust.
 
The plug blowout deal was usually caused by incorrect torqueing after they were changed. I have 60k on my '02 2v and have not had an issue yet. I do agree the three thread deal was a bad idea though.

The two piece spark plug deal has a TSB out (all over the internet) about the correct way to remove them that greatly, greatly reduces the chances to break them. They have since came out with a one piece plug that doesn't have this problem at all.

Things were tight in the 99-07 Superduties engine compartment too (as they are in most remotely modern vehicles) The 6.4 is very related to the 6.0, and along with many improvements was made slightly larger to give it a new name and to disassociate it from the 6.0. By and large the 6.4 trucks have been fairly problem free aside from a radiator issue.

Nothing is perfect (GM intake gaskets anyone? Dodge transmissions? Toyota engines, transmissions and tailgates?) They all have shops to make money... most of the bells and whistles have been brought about by the govt for emissions and it will only get worse.
 
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html

Here is a link showing it to be more than a 2002 issue. Didn't know that a one piece plug was available yet...will have to check that out. Damn shame you have to scared to change plugs in any product regardless of manufacturer.
 
Reread your post...meant to say that it was mostly factory plugs that were doing this not replaced ones. Thanks for the tip on the one piecers...now If I can get them in without pulling the heads.
 
It's ageless guys try changing a heater core on a 65 Olds Cutlass some engineers can get pretty arrogant like nothing ever fails but of course how do we expect dealers to stay in business? Oh and Bill make sure you remind your friend to save up for the big I'm not sure of when the manual calls for tuneup and that goes for all diesels no matter the mfr. If you go by the manual on service intervals you'll go broke unless you're using it to the max to make money. Like I told my wife when she bought her first Corvette and had to put directional tires on after about 20k miles + brakes $$$$ "If you're gonna play your gonna pay" But she works hard for her money and she can get what she wants. IMHO I think the extended warranty is great if you don't finance it and read the fine print as to service intervals. I'm no exception either because I own a 2002 HD full dresser bike with at least 35k miles on it and I bet my cost per mile rivals the diesels haven't done the math but I know I spend at least $1000 a yr. on service work. I'm kind of ranting here Bill but not at anyone in particular it just depends on what your pocketbook can stand.
 
(quoted from post at 14:19:11 08/18/08) Reread your post...meant to say that it was mostly factory plugs that were doing this not replaced ones. Thanks for the tip on the one piecers...now If I can get them in without pulling the heads.
Click to expand...

2 valve engines are the ones that are touchy about replaced plugs blowing out. They came out in 1997 and went until 2003 in the F-150, later in the Super Duty, and I think they are still in the E-Series. This applies to the Winsor built 4.6, 5.4 and 6.8, the Romeo 4.6 didn't have the issue at all. Sometime in 2003 they added more threads to the head that elimanated the problem.

Too much torque and you strip out the threads really easy, not enough and the plug works loose and eventually rips the threads out... if caught soon however (it sounds like a lifter tick) it can usually be retorqued before any problems arise. The fix for stripped out threads is a timesert which is a hardened steel insert you put in the head... gotta pull the head to put this in the back ones though.


In 2004 the 3 valve engines started coming out and had to have a goofy extension to get down to the combustion chamber. This extension was crimped on and when carbon gets built up around this extension and the cylinder head it can pull off of the rest of the plug when they are changed and stay lodged in the engine. The sooner you change these while following the TSB to the one piece plug the better before carbon has time to buildup the easier it will be.
 
That makes my old 98 12v Dodge Cummins look even better every day.
10 years old & still going strong
Been trouble free good for 19 to 20 MPG
Paid for long time ago ,one note on a new one would pay my fuel bill for two Mo.
 
aww thats not so bad. One of our deere 450 trackhoes at work had one of the injectors basically shoot into the cylinder and explode the #3 piston (not sure how). Luckilly still under warranty and fully covered but they were told it was a $39,000 repair job. Thats a lot of money for something that should not have happened on a fairly new machine.
 
Heard you had to remove the cab for the last two injectors too. Bout the first time they did that i would have them putting quick disconnects on some of the things, like the A/C lines.
 
gee i guess he should of bought a duramax like i did got a 06 drive 140 miles round trip everyday 2500 with a utility bed on her with 70000 miles now and she hasnt been touched other than a oil change every 5000 miles and fuel and tranny filter every 10 oh yeah she also weighs in at about 10000 lbs. guys it just doesnt get any better than a good ole chevy truck. RICK
 
Another 97 Dodge 12V CUmmins checking in. 137K miles, garage kept, mint as new, 5 speed manual, club, 4x4 long bed. and I wouldn't take any 2008 even up.

Gordo
 
If you have a loose plug on a 5.4 does it sound like a loose tappet or leaking exhaust manifold gasket?

I have 2002 super duty with a 5.4 and it has started to sound like I have little exhaust manifold leak. I haven't replaced the plugs yet. Kind of wondering if it's the plugs.
 
Anything that has to be done to those new Power Strokes, the cab has to come off! ..... another one of Fords better ideas. My old boss has an '08 and the cab has been off 3 times in less then 9 months. First time the entire engine wire harness had to be replaced... did someone say FIRE! The other 2 times were blown head gaskets... yes, thats twice for head gaskets. I think I'm seeing a pattern here for twin turbo's and weak head gaskets. This truck hasn't seen 30,000 miles yet! Never did see the reasoning for twins, especially on a v-8!
 
All I can say is dammmmnnnnn...... I have always had Powerstrokes, still have my 7.3 and 6.0, and love them.. but pulling the cab????? Nahhh.. Thats ok... Just wouldn't feel right after. And can you imagine the bill after warranty? Wow... Someone sure screwed the pooch on that one.
 
No, plugs just spit out all at once. I've seen head gaskets leak on 5.4's to where they blow out the area closest to the outside and not leak compression into the water jacket.
 
I remember the plug changing problem on V8 Monza but
pulling engine to change plugs on Vega is new to me.
 
Thats not what the instructor told us when we went to the hands on class. Ford and Navistar were locked in a court battle over warranty claims on the 6.0. Ford asked for an engine with XX hp, YY decibels at XX distance from it. The 6.0 was Navistar came up with. Ford took the 6.0 basic design and tried to fix the problems. Ford has been "shopping" for other potential sources of diesel engines for the F series. Navistar sued Ford believing that they were going to be replaced as the diesel engine provider for light duty trucks before their agreement expired.
 
Seems to me it's not sucha big deal to pull the cab on those trucks as some would think...I've never done it nor do I intend to, but I believe I've read that it's not really a big deal.
The benefit of having the damn thing off is that you dont' have to climb like an ape to get at the engine then. Probably makes more sense in the long run...once you get past the mental block of having to remove the cab.
All that said, I stil wouldnt' own a power joke. Cummins, all the way!

Rod
 
You will never see this in a 6.4 Furd!


Duramax/Allison Even the diehard Furd fanatics that haul cattle to the sales barn for a living are all switching to them, that says somthing! They are sick of the constant troubles, poor fuel mileage and Furd comming out with somthing new every few years so the troubles start all over again.




Here's mine. The most hard working nice to drive truck I've ever had except for the EPA's DPF crap.

<a href="http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Scott1066/?action=view¤t=HPIM0458Small.jpg" target="_blank">
HPIM0458Small.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket
</a>
ACFA8E1.JPG
 
Lifting the cab isn"t a big deal. Many of the repairs can be done with it on (even heads), but is easier with the cab lifted. Try replacing a turbo in a late model Duramax- The transer case and transmission has to come out first! Techs tell me it"s a 20 hour job. They all have their quirks. Gotta buy what you are comfortable with. I"ll stick with my Fords. My "08 F350 diesel is the smoothest, quietest, most comfortable truck I have ever driven, and it gets 18-19 mpg if I drive it sanely.
 
I just stick with my GMC's with 6.2 and 6.5 diesels. easyest to work on of the big three and far cheaper to fix too.All that extra HP seems to have a high cost.I have never ever been to the dealer for a fix.On the other hand,my son was stupid and bought last year a brandnew ford 1 ton with 6 ltr powerjoke and has been in the dealer more than he drove it. I refuse to work on that contraption,you need a friggin ladder to get to the engine bay that is a mechanics worst nightmare.
 
"If you have a loose plug on a 5.4 does it sound like a loose tappet or leaking exhaust manifold gasket?
I have 2002 super duty with a 5.4 and it has started to sound like I have little exhaust manifold leak. "

Those Tritons also had a problem with piston skirt slap that sounded the same, but went away once it was warmed up.
 
(quoted from post at 17:49:50 08/18/08) gee i guess he should of bought a duramax like i did got a 06 drive 140 miles round trip everyday 2500 with a utility bed on her with 70000 miles now and she hasnt been touched other than a oil change every 5000 miles and fuel and tranny filter every 10 oh yeah she also weighs in at about 10000 lbs. guys it just doesnt get any better than a good ole chevy truck. RICK
Click to expand...

My 2002 F-150 has required absolutly nothing, 60k miles on the factory plugs and has only been in the shop for the cruise recall.

It toys with pulling my WD-45, like everyone else (but in reverse) I have yet to find another truck I would trade straight up for.


The plug deal is really pretty rare, I know of about 20 other trucks and NONE have had it happen. People read about it in the internet and think the sky is falling but fail to realize that Ford was almost made a million F-150's per year, and then figure in the Super Duties...

You can say what you want but there must be a reason they have been the best selling truck for decades.
 
The 6.0 Navistar design was fine, it was only after the engine was "Fordized" that it had problems - the Navistar installations in trucks and other applications never had near the problems the Ford Super Duties had, an issue that was compounded by the fact that many Ford service departments lack the experiance to correctly work on them. The 6.4 was Navistar's update to the 6.0 design due to new EPA regulations. The basic engine is 100% Navistar and is used in Navistar trucks and other industrial applications. Ford took the Navistar design and "Fordized" it again to meet the higher specs for power ratings That's why it has a twin turbo (not found on any other Navistar application) to squeeze every last bit of power out of it so Ford can truthfully advertise it as the most powerful engine in its class in its commercials against Dodge and Chevy.

Ford was going to try to design its own light duty desiel engine for the F150 but its agreement with Navistar is exclusive preventing it from actually selling it. Given how slow Ford moves even if they have the design it will be 2011 before its ready for road tests anyway. Ford's recent money problems (along with declining truck sales) have probably cancelled the project anyway. Ford needed that engine in 1999, the market has already passed it by.
 
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