how stuck is stuck?

Dan-IA · Jul 22, 2008

My favorite Cockshutt 30 had an issue I didn't know what to do with in late fall of 2006. Was a carb issue. Tractor got shedded and has been inside since then, but yesterday I wanted to move her a little bit by cranking it with it in gear, only to find the engine is stuck. I'm thinking this shouldn't be stuck all that bad, it being not even 2 years and inside a shed, but nevertheless I couldn't turn the crank on the front.

I learned with another cockshutt that you don't force the crank on these or you'll ruin the goofy hook-nut on the crankshaft, they're made of softer stuff than on the old F-20 I unstuck last (I could stand on the crank and jump to force miniscule engine movement.)

So. Here I have a stuck Cockshutt 30. I get that it needs to soak with some sort of penetrating oil (I vote diesel fuel) but how else can I attempt to turn it? If it's stuck I think I'd only ruin a starter trying to turn it that way. Thanks!

John S-B · Jul 22, 2008

Don't know much about Cockshutt's, or where the nut is you speak of, but could you put a different nut on there temporarily?

rustyfarmall · Jul 22, 2008

Let it set for a few days with the diesel or whatever in the cylinders. Then put the tractor in its highest gear and rock it back and forth by pushing against the rear tires. If that doesn't work, it is probably stuck worse than we think.

Welding man · Jul 22, 2008

I own three Cockshutts, but it doesn't matter ,a stuck engine is a stuck engine, and everybody has a different formula for getting them loose, diesel fuel,automatic transmission fluid,PB blaster, Coca Cola, Brake Fluid, Marvel Mystery Oil to name a few, but my experience is, if its stuck bad,it will never be worth a darn afterwards unless you rebuild it. It will always use oil and have low compression.I am sure others will disagree but thats my opinion after 35yrs of fooling with this stuff.

Lanse · Jul 22, 2008

you could tap the starter button assuming it has one.

old · Jul 22, 2008

I my self use ATF in engines that are stuck and out of 20 only 2 didn't pop loose. I do have 2 soaking right now but I haven't tried to pop them loose yet, been to busy with other things. I also use short fast taps on the starter button to pop them loose. Fill the cylinders and give it a week or so then try the starter with a 12 volt battery. If you can don't turn the ignition on
Hobby farm

Ken Macfarlane · Jul 22, 2008

On some you can take the starter out and get a pry bar onto the ring gear. I have see guys weld a socket onto an old starter gear and use a breaker bar on it.

I think if you start getting too rough on it you may break a ring or something.

Old Ford Mechanic · Jul 22, 2008

Dan,i'm sure you know what you are doing but,but please never attemp to turn an engine while the machine is in gear.Just had a guy a couple of miles away do that.The result was two broken legs along with massive internal injuries.He is now looking at several months of healing time.I know a tractor that has been sitting for that long should not start but,stranger things have happend.I've had close calls myself.

Dan-IA · Jul 22, 2008

The goofy hook-nut, as I creatively called it, is the nut on the end of the crankshaft that has 4 little fingers on it to grab the pegs on either side of the hand-crank.

Now that I think of it, maybe I just stripped the threads on the crankshaft on the other 30, I haven't looked. I just know I effeectively ruined any chance of starting it with the hand crank.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 22, 2008

I dont think anyone could argue with you and have a leg to stand on, especially if the engine was badly seized.............rusted/pitted cylinder walls and pistons with chipped/broken/sticking rings dont tend to make an efficient combination................not to say that the engine wont still be running years later though.............

Dan-IA · Jul 22, 2008

With the ignition off and at least at least two of the 4 spark plugs still screwed in I figure theres enough compression to stop it from rolling. This is on a flat shop floor where I was cranking it like this, and I was taught that cranking it by hand in low gear makes for a very powerful hand which on a portable anchor. Tied a log chain on the drawbar and stood up more leaning buildings that way.

Brian Jasper co. Ia · Jul 22, 2008

Just to play devil's advocate, did you take all the plugs out? A hydraulic lock will seem like its stuck. Otherwise, use some sort of penetrant. I like BG In Force.

dhermesc · Jul 22, 2008

Take the plugs out and put some light oil/penetrating oil in the cylinders. Then jack one back wheel off the ground and put the tractor in road gear and start rocking the wheel by hand.

Dick L · Jul 22, 2008

Before getting to involved with stuck pistons as a cause you might want to check for a stuck valve. If the head didn't have a crack as an original problem it is hard to think the rings would set up that quick on a used engine. If you only had water in the radiator it could get water over the pistons inside over a winter in IA.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 22, 2008

I remember you mentioning having quite a few that have been unstuck, any diesels in there too ? The thing I am always curious about is, when they free up, have you had any trouble with cylinder or liner damage from abrasion, rust particles and other abrasive contaminants whereas later on you are getting blow by past the rings ? Also wonder about the rings being stuck. Just curious, though you seem to have had good luck with soaking, though you may not have to do an overhaul on some or all, is it better to pop the head and at least soak and clean the bores prior to running for the above reasons, we see a lot of posts on this here.

One of my D7's, our original one here, I retrieved in '03 and it's stuck but good since I first started working on it again, can was over the stack and manifolds on, who knows maybe the can that looked like it was on there the whole time was not or it was condensation, often wonder what does em in, with diesel you have sulpher and carbon, add that water, tight engine = stuck. This one ran great prior. Head has to come off that one, my other one, I hand crank at least 1x per month and move the pistons around, don't need another boat anchor, so far so good.

Mike (WA) · Jul 22, 2008

Over on the Hudson board, where stuck is really stuck, since every Hudson in the world is at least 50 years old, the consensus from those who have done a lot of them, is a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Said to be a better penetrant than Kroil or PB Blaster (which I have found to be pretty good, for bolts and nuts). Mix it up as you need it, due to the volatility of the acetone.

old · Jul 22, 2008

I've done one diesel and in it I used turpentine and it popped free in just a couple days. So far I have been lucky and not had to replace rings in any yet, but I figure the day will come that I will. I have had a few that I had to pull the head on because of stuck valves but again only 2 or 3. I did have one that one of the sleeves came out when it started to pop free and I had to replace that sleeve and that was on an Allis C
Hobby farm

johndeereman · Jul 22, 2008

dc tom on the case board has a unique way of doing this he takes another tractor and backs up along side of it and runs a hydraulic hose to a spark plug hole use one that is mid stroke as it will not roll it over tdc or bdc this way

ScottyHOMeY · Jul 22, 2008

Mike, can you put up a link to the Hudson board? Got a neighbor with about ten of them out in his woods. He wanted me to help drag them out for the scrap bonanza, but they're in a lot better shape than you might expect, especially the chrome. I'd like to get him online and involved in a network where he can part them out.

El Toro · Jul 22, 2008

Use ATF and let it soak. Hal

02XLT4X4 · Jul 22, 2008

(quoted from post at 12:40:01 07/22/08) dc tom on the case board has a unique way of doing this he takes another tractor and backs up along side of it and runs a hydraulic hose to a spark plug hole use one that is mid stroke as it will not roll it over tdc or bdc this way

We have done that as well, we use a old two cylinder John Deere that doesn't have a whole lot of pressure though.

Soaking (we use brake fluid) and trying to crank/rock/pull them usually works, we use the hydraulic method as a last resort.

You have to be carefull, but usually it works pretty good. Our only casualty so far was a headgasket on a Oliver 88 diesel, and it was SHOT to start with.

If you have a smoker you pull it apart and fix it, just like you would have if you went down that route to start with. So far aside from the Oliver that sat outside with the exhaust open and had a royally trashed engine to start with out of about 10 tractors they all came out running great.

Fixer · Jul 22, 2008

Silly thought. Don't suppose starter is stuck? Bernie Steffen

NEsota · Jul 22, 2008

After being dependable, our E-3 Coop had not been used for 2-3 years, we found before trying to turn it over, that one cylinder was half full of coolant. Now, this is the first thing I check for on one that has been resting.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 22, 2008

KNOCK THE PORCILYN off an old spark plug. drill and tap it for grease zerk. Fill grease gun with your favorite penitrant and pump till you bend the handle.

John Heine · Jul 23, 2008

Take out spark plug take rocker arm loose so valves are closed.Use port-o-power with oil and put pressure in cylinder. Better put penetrating oil in all cylinders not knowing which cyl in holding it.Use a fitting off compression tester to put on port o power to go into cyl.

Mike (WA) · Jul 23, 2008

Here's the link, I hope. It would be great if they could be saved rather than chewed up and sent across the pond! Best to just post on the main board that comes up- I don't think you have to even sign up.
Hudson board

02XLT4X4 · Jul 23, 2008

(quoted from post at 17:00:05 07/22/08)

(quoted from post at 12:40:01 07/22/08) dc tom on the case board has a unique way of doing this he takes another tractor and backs up along side of it and runs a hydraulic hose to a spark plug hole use one that is mid stroke as it will not roll it over tdc or bdc this way

Click to expand...

We have done that as well, we use a old two cylinder John Deere that doesn't have a whole lot of pressure though.

Soaking (we use brake fluid) and trying to crank/rock/pull them usually works, we use the hydraulic method as a last resort.

You have to be carefull, but usually it works pretty good. Our only casualty so far was a headgasket on a Oliver 88 diesel, and it was SHOT to start with.

If you have a smoker you pull it apart and fix it, just like you would have if you went down that route to start with. So far aside from the Oliver that sat outside with the exhaust open and had a royally trashed engine to start with out of about 10 tractors they all came out running great.

I forgot to mention that it is always a good idea to remove the rocker arm assembly while trying to beak an engine loose, and you will know if you will have to pull the head off any for valve work.

ScottyHOMeY · Jul 23, 2008

Thanks, Mike!

how stuck is stuck?

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