OT- geothermal systems

Were looking at a geothermal system for our house in the country.The ones there installing around here use a 3ft hole about 40 ft deep with copper pipes instead of the loop system that takes a lot of space.A friend of mine converted from one of those outside wood furnaces last winter and heated his house for $300 dollars with this system.It uses a heat pump and connects to your existing furnace.The only problem i see is the 16000 cost.I'm going to check into the older loop systems,i have another neighbor installing one of them now.I don't see why it should cost that much though,i can buy a lot of oil for that.

That sounds a little high to me also.

We have a 4 ton system and that needed 1600 ft of 1" black plastic water line for a closed loop system.

The water line is in a pit 6 to 7 foot deep. 20 foot wide and 75 foot long and it works great.

So if you have a 40 by 100 back yard I would think you could get it in.

In 2000 it cost $1500 for the line and the cost to dig the pit.

Get some more bids and check out the pit system more.

Gary

Gary, I'm thinking about installing a ground source heat pump also. Sooner or later, propane will be un-affordable. Do you have two electric meters or one? How much did your heat pump increase your power bill per month. (During the winter months)

Don't know much about the thermal stuff. But, i do have a friend who put in a pond in his yard 12 ft deep and they run the pipe in it . Anyone else heard of this kind of a system. Sounds easier than drilling and trenching etc. Plus u end up with a nice pond. North central Illinois.
Just a thought

Farmer

You seem really on top of things so I trust I can get an honest answer outta ya. How do you heat a house to 68 when the water temp is probably only 58? I can see how they would be a tremendous help in cooling but heating seems like it would work backwards for ya.

Pump it twice as fast then, 58 plus 58 equals 116 F LOL

You use a heat pump. A heat pump is nothing more than a device that takes heat out of something and transfers it to something else. Your refrigerator is a prime example. It takes heat out of the box and dumps it into your kitchen. In the case of geo-thermal, it takes heat out of the ground and transfers it into the house. The house gets warmer and the ground gets colder.

Air conditionin is the reverse, it takes heat out of the house and dumps it into th air outside. The outside gets warmer and the house gets cooler.

Great if properly installed. Terrible if done by a tinkerer.
Often to help keep the price down,the heat exchanger area outside ends up too small.

Yeap just as Corner Post said.

The reason for using water heated by the ground to 58 is there is a lot of heat to recap from it.

My system is a water to air system. Takes the heat out of water and blows it into my air ducts in the house.

In the south they use air to air heat pumps. They start with what ever the outside air is and warm the the air inside the house.

In the north these are inefficient cause of starting with 0 degree air some times. With the ground source water it is at 58 degrees to start pumping the heat from.

I had a geothermal for 19 years, and this year replaced it with a new one. They are the only way to go in my opinion. Whether horizontal or vertical loop depends on amount of room, and climate. further north, vertical is hte way to go.

I spent $375 to heat and cool my house in 2007. About $80 for cooling at full price and $295 for heating in the winter at a discounted price.
My highest winter monthly bill since we moved in is $175 for everything. My lowest in a spring month is $90. Most months it takes about $40 to $60 for heat. $10 to $20 for cooling in the 3 summer months.

My waste heat in the summer is recirulated thru a hot water heater to prewarm the cold water before it enters the regular hot water heater.

So about every thing you spend on cooling you save on hot water.

My house is 8 years old and had the geo thermal installed when new. House is 32x55 ranch style with a full heated basement.

Yes I have 2 meters and get a discount in the winter on my kilowatts use.

Electric companies like it cause they can sell more kilowatts in the winter to balance out there high usage they have to be prepared for in the summer.

Gary

Yes the pond system works better than the underground buried if the pond is deep enough.

The water transfers the heat into the pipes better than soil.

Gary

The best example of geo-thermal heating is Al Gore's mouth hot air comes out and the earth warm's up, viola!, global warming!

Ray,

I have been running a geo-thermal unit for 4 years now. Mine is a forced air unit. In my area I only have one meter. So the entire house gets the discounted electric rate. Another guy has two meters. Just depends on the power company.

The unit I installed was expensive compared to an LP setup. My payback on the difference was 12 months of heating (4 months x 3 winters).

For comparison.
Neighbor is running $600/month for propane. He turns the furnace down during the day and at night while sleeping.

I heat twice the square footage, leave my themostat set at 70 and my highest bill has been $300/month. My unit is a single stage. The new units are two stage and are even more efficient.

I have a 50,000BTU backup electric heat unit built in. It only kicks on 2-3 days a year. Thats when it is -5F and the wind is 30mph +.

I cant justify upgrading to a two stage unit when mine is only 4 years old, but in-time I will.

I dont know a more efficient way to heat. Excluding wood, if you have a cheap source.

Around mid-Michigan the general rule of thumb is heating will cost you 40% of LP, and AC will cost 25% of a standard outdoor unit. Seems to work pretty out ok when I compare my neighbors bills to mine.

I have a horizontal loop system. Seems to be common around here. On small lots typically use vertical closed loop. If I had to do it over I would have put the heat exchanger in the bottom of my pond.

Good luck,
Rick

I am in North Alabama and have been interested in this for when I build a house next spring. Who do you talk to about getting information on this type of system? I assume there are specialists that do this work?

Thanks

Ok, so say you can run 100% efficiency and pull 58 degrees from your water. If your air temp inside is 68 you are adding colder air than you desire. Wouldn't that cool your house? This is where I get confused. How does it pull the heat yet make it warmer when the water temp is colder than the desired air temp. Must be some trick to the process I am missing.

Just wanted to keep this thread going . JoBob has a question that needs answered if anyone can.
My question as far as heat pumps is do they use freon to transfer the heat like a refrigerator.
I'm really interested in the pond system. My brother and i are rebuilding our late grandparents homestead. Almost done with a new block basement block by frigging block . Just a little more flat work then the actual house.
10 year project into it 5. So we need a heating system. The house had coal when i was a kid , then fuel oil. We have to decide on what to heat a cool with. I guess i'll have to google up some stuff and do some reading.
My back ground is all types of construction. So i would do all the major stuff like digging the pond , run lines , etc.
What would a system like we've been talking about cost not including installation. 6,8 10 thousand?
Thanks

Farmer101