hybrid cars

farmer boy · Jun 2, 2008

Are these cars and SUV's any more efficent at 120km/h. I'm not considering buying one but the gas engine isn't 100% efficent and the generator isn't 100% efficent and the electric motor isn't 100% efficent and the transmission sin't 100% efficent so in the end would you not be better without those two extra energy wasters in there? That is how a hybrid works,right?

Anonymous-0 · Jun 2, 2008

A Hybrid is able to store extra energy, using it later for when peak power is needed. One example is the ability to generate and store power on a downhill grade. The key is a very complicated engine/vehicle management computer(s). Several friends have Hybrids, and are well pleased with them..

Mark - IN. · Jun 2, 2008

Got me, I just steal fuel from my neighbors. Started out with 5 gallons from one guy one night, then 5 from another guy another night. Then one guy complained was down 5 gallons, so i stole 10 from another neighbor, 5 of which I sneaked back into the complainers, and 5 into mine for my time stealing the 10. Now all of my neighbors are complaining, so I'm up to stealing 1,000 gallons a night, 995 that I have to sneak back into everyone's something or other, and 5 that I put in mine for my time stealing from them. I think they're getting a good deal. For all of that work, I only get 5 gallons and its getting kind of expensive for me to drive around from house to house with a tanker big enough to steal and haul 1,000 gallons from farm to farm.

Just kidding. I don't steal fuel, don't know squat about hybrids.

Mark

Anonymous-0 · Jun 2, 2008

Not sure about all that,but I have read how much a new one costs.Wife burns about $75 worth of gasoline per month in her paid for Cadillac,I use about $250 or $300 per month in my paid for 4 door Silverado,both worth not much as trade in's despite being only 4 or 5 years old.I could make $1000 a month payments on two less comfortable rinky dink vehicles and save $150 or $200 a month on gas,best case scenario.They're best bet is to try to fool arithmitic challanged folks into buying these machines.I was a pretty good math student up until they put letters in the problems,I had to get a job once that started.

MarkB_MI · Jun 2, 2008

Hybrids take advantage of the fact that an engine is most efficient at wide open throttle. So they use a small engine that is operating at a high power setting most of time, and store the excess energy in batteries. When extra power is needed, they draw energy off the batteries. They also use regenerative braking to recover energy when stopping.

The concept is solid, but the extra hardware adds a lot of cost. In time, I'm sure the price will come down, but right now I don't think they make economic sense.

Ray · Jun 2, 2008

The ones i see advertised don't get any better milage than the regular gas cars.My old 2000 chevy lumina gets 27 around home and a hybrid around 30.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 2, 2008

For long trips at high speed, the hybrid is little if any more fuel efficient than a far less complicated conventional car.
For driving that involves a lot of start/ stop / idle, the hybrid is much more efficient.
a relative who is a urban /rural mail carrier who averages 10 or more stops per mile, has replaced his Dakota V6 pickup with a Ford Escape hybrid 4X4.
He went from an average of 12 mpg to 28 mpg doing the exact same job. He is very impressed with it for his mail route car On a long 3600 mile trip at highway speed, the Escape hybrid made only about 5% better mpg than a standard Escape.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 2, 2008

Friend has an imported hybrid mini SUV. Gets all of 30 MPG. I get that or slightly better with my stock gas VW Golf that I bought with 50K miles on it for $10,400. The price difference to a Prius buys a lot of fuel.

Engine in the Prius is not a standard 4 cycle engine. It has a modified cycle that gets it more efficiency. Another friend with a Prius claims 60 mpg with 4 adults on long trips (like Iowa to Pennsylvania). The Prius engine has a 12:1 compression ratio, but that would ping on regular gas so the intake valve is held open for about half the compression stroke making it compress 6:1 but it gets to expand the burning fuel over 12:1 and that extracts more energy from the fuel.

That modified engine cycle and being able to run the engine at full load or not at all improves highway efficiency.

Gerald J.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 2, 2008

Right now, they probably don't make too much economic sense for the average Joe. If the manufacturers get serious about the 'plug in' hybrids which are available overseas, then that would be different. A plug in is just like a regular hybrid except it has an extra battery pack and a receptical to plug into your house. It also has an all electric mode. Supposedly, the plug in Prius can go about 40 miles on just electricity if you don't get it up to 80 mph or so. That would take care of about 75 to 80 percent of commuters. It only cost a couple of bucks of electricity, which is also generated off peak (at night) to charge it. If these cars can be mass produced to get the per unit cost down, it could make a huge difference in our energy consumption.

John730D · Jun 3, 2008

Just go buy a new Ford Focus. I did and am getting 35+ MPG. on a 50 mile round trip commute. I only have 3000 miles on it and I suspect it will get better. I was geting 29-30 MPG when it was new. Cheap to run and insure. I also got the automatic, a manual might get better.

MSM · Jun 3, 2008

They give the greenie weenies a fuzzy warm feeling,which when picked up by the sensors in the drivers seat helps charge the batteries.
Seriously though,they actually pollute more than a regular car of the same size when you factor in the emmisions from the power plant that is used to charge the batteries.

Dave 2N · Jun 3, 2008

Bingo!

I"m getting 30+ average with my Ford Ranger 2wd with the 4 cyl. engine and 5 speed. If I didn"t have that, I"d go for a Focus. They were advertising them around here in the Sunday paper for $11,999. That was the 2 door, 5 speed, air, Sirius radio. That $11,999 is considerably less than a new hybrid. Even math-challenged me can figure that out!

farmer boy · Jun 3, 2008

That's what I mean. I was on the EPA? website checking out fuel mileage and the hybrid pickups didn't seem to get any better mileage than the normal pickup.I'm kind of understanding it a bit better now. I never thought about it being a smaller engine and therefore being more efficent. What i was trying to say with all that efficency stuff was that there was less stuff to lose energy through. lets say everything is 95% efficent. By the time you get to the wheels with a normal car your down to 80-85%. With a hybrid your down to 70-75% of the power getting to the wheels.
I'm not to sure about those numbers because their examples to explain my point.

tlak · Jun 3, 2008

There's a company that will modify your Hybrid to get 100mpg. I think it was better and more batteries. They said about 30k.
I wondered why not, like on a minivan, a whole roof of solar panels?

INCase · Jun 3, 2008

Motor Trend magazine has an article this month on diesel cars and light trucks. On most models it gives an estimate payback time based on the exra cost of the diesel option (depends on driving habits and fuel$). Some models didn't show a payback over 200000 miles. The VW Jetta was the only one under 50000 miles. You'll have to do the math with the hybrids too. There is a tax break on them (new?) but i'm sure it doesn't come close to the extra cost. A buddy here at work has the little Honda Insight. He gets 55MPG with mixed highway/city driving. That thing only has a payload of 300lbs. He and I overload it and I'm not a big fellow. We had an 1985 Ford Escort and it would get 40MPG on the highway but it was a plain jane no options at all. You can't buy a car today without PSteering and Pbrakes let alone finding one with a stick, manual windows no AC ect. those things all rob power and fuel.

CJ3b_jeep · Jun 3, 2008

I've got a Toyota 2wd, extracab, 4 cylinder auto, gets 28 mpg in mixed driving, mostly rural roads, 40-5o mph.

JDemaris · Jun 3, 2008

The only way the hybrid offers a gain is - if you use your brakes a lot. And, overall there is no net-gain with any of them no matter how you drive. That because of the tremendous amount of BTU energy needed to build one. When they leave the assembly line - they've already consumed a huge amount of petroleum fuel.

You'd make out only if someone gave you one. Also keep in mind, if you live in a cold area, you have to keep running the gas engine to get heat and defrost.

GordoSD · Jun 3, 2008

I use a 97 Geo Tracker for 90% of my driving. Hook up a 6x10 trailer for a lot of odd jobs.
It' s built on a light truck frame, 5 spd, 1.6L 16 valve, 4x4
manual windows, no cruise, no power locks, just the basics. Gets 30mpg all around, and 32-33 hgwy at 65-70. Bought it with 55,000 miles on ebay for 3500 dollars three years ago.

GW

Paul from MN · Jun 3, 2008

Mark, Figured you were not a thief, thought it was funny.

sd pete · Jun 3, 2008

I have a Buick Regal it gets 31 mpg at 75 mph. Rides darn nice too. that toyota hybrid is about the ugliest thing on the road after the Pontiac aztec.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 3, 2008

The Aztec is so ugly it will make a train take a dirt road.

jeff75781 · Jun 3, 2008

If you don't live in California and want excellent fuel economy go get a Volkswagon turbo diesel bug. I have one with a manual transmision that averages 52 mpg. The only problem I have ever had with this vehicle was the flower holder which I promptly removed! I add some Howes diesel lubricant every time I fill the tank and have had no problems with the ultra low sulfur diesel.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 3, 2008

Bingo.

Urban / Suburban drivers who spend a lot of time in stop-n-go traffic would benefit the most. A lot of people, if you could plug them in at night, would only need the gas engine when going places on the weekend.

Generate the power with nuclear, or eventually deep well geothermal or far offshore (i.e. out of site) windfarms, and you're talking about a solution that is "green" -- both environmentally, as well as employing well paid workers here in the U.S. to keep the powerplants running and having investors here in the U.S. keep the profits. Instead of burning oil we're buying from Hugo Chavez or any number of third world dictators.

A vigorous nuclear power program, hybrid cars for the cities, electrification and expansion of the freight rail network...it isn't out of the question for the U.S. to be able to keep it's energy import needs within the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. Interestingly...expansion of demand in India and China might help us -- let them buy the oil from Saudi Arabia, we have coal we can liquefy as long as the prices stay up there.

Crem · Jun 3, 2008

I have to agree with you about the toyota hybrid being ugly.

JDemaris · Jun 3, 2008

I've got five of them (1st gen. Trackers). Great little SUVs - but I wouldn't call the frame a "truck frame." Separate and stand-alone - yes - but it's made of very thin sheet metal and rusts when you look at it cross-eyed.

My wife drives mountain dirts roads every day to work. She was averaging 38 MPG with our Jetta diesel Volkswagen. Now, she's driving mostly our 95 Tracker instead. 4WD, five speed trans. 5.125 to 1 axle ratios, and a 1.6 - sixteen valve engine. She's averaging 29 MPG with the Tracker - and with the cost of diesel - is just about as cheap to drive. She now drives the diesel Volkswagen only highway trips - since the Tracker isn't too happy past 60 MPH - and the Volks gets 50 MPG on the highway.

There was a special California-only version Tracker made that had 4.30 - 1 axles - I'd like to get some of those axles.

Tracker with manual trans revvs at 3550 RPM at 65 MPH since it has 5.125 - 1 axles.

Tracker with auto trans revvs at 3720 RPM at 65 MPH and has 4.70 - 1 axles.

A five speed Tracker with California axles added would rev 2980 RPM at 65 MPH and probably get fanstastic gas mileage on flat roads.

JDemaris · Jun 3, 2008

A whole roof full of solar panels on a minivan will yield you a max of around 400 watts - or 30 amps @ 12 volts in the brightest sunshine. You could barely run your cigarette lighter on that.
Now, if you parked it most of the time and then only used it for short runs - you'd have something - but the battery bank would be pretty heavy.

jose bagge · Jun 3, 2008

We've got a Tracker that we use on the farm as well...automatic with a 2 1/2 lift currently riding on 30/9.50-15 goodyears. Fine little truck- sparce interior lets you just hose it out, good motor and sturdy trans...wish it didn't have struts up front though

jose bagge · Jun 3, 2008

....the "greenies" wouldn't buy them! The hybrids that look like regular cars don't sell worth a damn- they have to look as funky as a pale vegitarian chick in birkenstocks before the greens will buy 'em.
It's the bizzarro world opposite of 4 door dually-cowboy hat crowd.

John (MO) · Jun 3, 2008

I get 25 mpg with the Caddy if I keep my foot under control. I believe I"ll just run her a while longer before I move down into an aluminum pop can with a motorcycle engine to gain that 5 extra mpg. I feel a tad bit safer in a real car also.

john *.?-!.* cub owner · Jun 3, 2008

You can't buy a car today without PSteering and Pbrakes let alone finding one with a stick, manual windows no AC ect. those things all rob power and fuel.

ith the aerodynamic design of modern vehicles and the efficiency of the modern air conditioning systems, you actually use more power at highway speeds with the windows open than running the ac.

hybrid cars

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

New User

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads