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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold?

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Bob Spooner

10-07-2004 05:04:37




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A buddy has a JD 410B backhoe that he says is hard to start in the cold. Make sure you squirt it with ether he says, and she'll start.

What would be the likely things to address for this problem? I don't have specifics at this time, just looking for where to start.

I'd like to help him out and get his backhoe able to start despite the weather.

Thanks.

Bob
East Hampton, cT




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johndeereman

10-07-2004 17:46:49




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
ive heard stories of the loggers building a fire under the skidder in the morning so it will start no plug ins in the woods for block heaters



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Allan in NE

10-08-2004 05:32:12




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to johndeereman, 10-07-2004 17:46:49  
JDM,

I agree. That used to be the normal fair before the days of block heaters; done it hundreds of times.

Only thing is, never use #1 diesel fuel for the task; always use #2. A pan of #1 will burn 10 feet high and not flame 'lazy' like #2 will. :>)

Allan



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RN

10-07-2004 17:23:55




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Possible tip from Mercedes owner newsletter- for diesel start in winter use a hair drier in air intake. Insert 15 minutes to 1/2 hour before attempting to start engine, turn on high heat to warm air in manifold and some warming of head. IHC 350D has heat plug in manifold- 1 minute of heat before attempting to start in spring/fall, 2 minutes in winter, about 30 seconds needed even in summer. Hot air helps start JD combine- sister wondered where hair drier disappeared. RN.

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JDknut

10-07-2004 09:23:34




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Get that pup good and warm, spin 'er over fast enough and get 'er fuel and she'll start. Up here where the temperature goes to 35 below zero F, that is how we get our diesels running. The biggest thing is the use of a block heater. At least two hours before you want to use it (more if it is really cold) plug it in and let it warm up then it'll start like the middle of summer. Keep the battery up and the cable connections cleaned. If it gets much colder than xero, you should put an anti-gel additive in the fuel. I don't like ether, I have seen what it does to engines and it is not pretty (or cheap). I prefer to plug it in and let it warm up. ALso, if it is real cold, you might want to takea it easy on the hydraulics until they warm up. Good luck!.

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JHesler

10-07-2004 07:59:54




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Two things: Compression and cranking speed. If you're low on either it'll make starting difficult. Sleepy gas and block heaters will help although I wouldn't use the gas except as a last resort. I think the 410B is automatically out of stroke until a load is demanded.



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Kendall

10-07-2004 07:09:11




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
I've heard others talk about hard to start diesels and problem was solved with new glow plugs.



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Mike M

10-07-2004 06:00:25




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Check with JD and see if they make ,or if you allready have a hyd. pump destroke kit. Some you turn by hand and some have an electric solenoid.This will shut off the hyd. pump when starting so you don't have to pump all that cold oil.



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txblu

10-07-2004 05:57:38




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Adding to the excellent commentaries, I purchased a diesel tractor that the salesman had to use ether to start it in March, in Texas. Should have been buyer beware.

In short, an engine overhaul made starting in summer a snap, and a little of the glow plug in the winter was all that was needed.

Nuf said.

Mark



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Joe Evans

10-07-2004 05:31:28




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Diesel engines get their ignition from compression. A cold block will 'sink' compression heat into it until enough cranking revolutions generate enough compression heat cycles to overcome this. Thus the use of glow plugs on direct start diesels.

In cold temps, there is a vicious cycle of having to crank the engine a lot to build heat, and at lower temps batteries that are not A-1 don't deliver the cold cranking amps. Add to this cranking torque in cold weather connected auxiliary devices--oil pumps and hydraulic pumps trying to push cold, sluggish oil. Don't forget the drain on the battery's power delivery for cranking when you ask it to also heat up glow plugs.

Diesel fuel cooks-off at roughly 700 deg F. Ether has a lower cook-off temp of about half this allowing the engine to fire way before enough ignition temp is generated through compression for diesel fuel ignition. Glow plugs pre-heat cylinders so that fewer compression cycles are needed for starting. They almost act like spark plugs.

If compression is the ingredient for diesel ingnition, then you can assume on an engine that id balky at starting may have suspect compression from age and wear and/or glow plug problems.

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Allan in NE

10-07-2004 05:11:59




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 Re: What makes a tractor hard to start in the cold in reply to Bob Spooner, 10-07-2004 05:04:37  
Hi Bob,

Low ignition temps; age old problem.

If it is a diesel, which I would assume it is, make sure it has a block heater that is in working order.

Allan



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