Today's Oils Engine damage older engines. Myth or Fact?

DelMN · Mar 13, 2023

Is a myth or fact that todays oils cause undo wear in older engines. I've seen on this forum that it causes cam damage. Has anyone really experienced this? Or is it second hand knowledge? Some say to add zinc but does that really help? Looking on the internet, there are comments both ways. I have several old tractors and would like to know what to do.

Thanks in advance.

buickanddeere · Mar 13, 2023

Low ash, low zinc oil intended for emissions engines and two stroke Detroit diesels . This oil can lack the high pressure point additives that protect hydraulic/solid hydraulic followers and cams.
This is why roller cams are used on two stroke Detroit and emissions engines that have particulate filters.
So use the oil speced for the engine . One size does not fit all . Many a two stroke diesel has been ruined by some clod pouring in 15W-40 four stroke oil .

jon f mn · Mar 13, 2023

Allow my stuff, gas and diesel, gets 15/40 diesel oil. I've never had an oil related failure. When the equipment talked about on this site was made there was no multi viscosity oil. Any oil made today is going to be better than any oil made then.

Janicholson · Mar 13, 2023

Old engines in tractors have very light cam to lifter pressures because they run at 2000 or less. This is a sliding friction with steel on steel. Modern cars using the 5W 30 and 0W 15 oils all have roller camshafts and followers. The zinc found in 10-30 , and 15-40 oils is not in these new oils. Primarily as it is undesirable in catalytic converters. So two conclusions: the thin oils don't belong in old tractors, and old tractors really are not stressed enough to care much. Zinc does improve the sliding friction wear factor. Diesel grade 15-40 oil from Delo, Shell, or other quality source work well, providing good starting and 40 wt protection warmed up. jim

Geo-TH,In · Mar 13, 2023

When it comes to oil, I use the oil my handbook recommends.
GM recommends 5w30 full synthetic in my 2018.
GM recommends 5w30 conventional oil in my 2005 and 2007.
Kubota gave me a quart of oil for my 2019. I think it was conventional 10w30 oil. Not 100%. It is sitting on the shelf next to the tractor.
I'll have to look. Someone said it was Valvoline oil.

I can't say I've ever had an engine fail because of oil.

I don't overthink oils. Just use what your handbook says.

One time I put an additive in my car. The additive screwed up the O2 sensor. The new O2 sensor said don't use additives..

It's your money, your engines.

rustred · Mar 13, 2023

my advise would be dont put todays thin oils in old engines. oil like a 5-20 i have a hard time pouring it in on an oil change. but thats what jeep says so i use it. them old engines need a higher vis like like 15-40 in the diesels. i like castrol 20-50 for gas engines, and have been using it for at least 50 years since i had my honda 90 bike. it is very good oil.

marloweg · Mar 13, 2023

everything i own gets 15-40 diesel oil and i got a lot of engines from 5hp. to 450hp

sotxbill · Mar 13, 2023

IF>>>>>>> I were building a new RACE engine with HIGH valve spring pressure on a FLAT tappet cam,,,, YES I would add the special zinc additive to break it in as the newer oils have severely limited that additive. But for most old engines I still run my 15w-40 hd diesel oils with no ill effects. Our tractors dont have high lift cams, or have to worry about floating valves (springs) at high rpms.

johnofnewhaven · Mar 13, 2023

All my tractors gas or diesel get 15w-40 diesel oil. My newest tractor is a 1999.

Leroy · Mar 13, 2023

Never had a diesel and never used that 15-40 diesel oil, all regular 10-40 oil. Only engine failure was back in the 60's as what I was getting was supposed to be rerefined and no dirt in it. Well it did have dirt in and plured the rockers on my 49 Caddy. Now my 2001 Dakota calls for 10-30 same as my 2003 Dakota but I use the 10-40. Garage mistaken put 10-30 in and it started using oil heavy, did not before and back to the 10-40 and oil use has stoped.

Fixingfarmer · Mar 13, 2023

You can do a lot of things really with the old tractors and be just fine. Often whats called for in the book is 30w engine oil. You can still purchase that or do 10w30 Diesel engine oil would give you the same performance at running temperature and flow better at cold start. This is what most of the old gas tractors get for oil around here. 15w40 in most modern diesels and even the diesel 4020 gets that although it probably would say 30w in the book.
The generator tractor gets a 0w40 diesel oil from caterpillar. If I had the money Id put it in all the tractors because it cranks beautifully at 20 below and still has the higher high temp viscosity to run at a warmer temperature in the summer. It also doesnt seem to leak from seals much for a synthetic.
The real answer is its unlikely to affect how soon a rebuild is needed and oil is like peoples religion in that they stay with it till the grave so you might as well just pick one and run with it and not lose much sleep over how correct a choice you made.

JMOR · Mar 13, 2023

(quoted from post at 15:40:43 03/13/23) Is a myth or fact that todays oils cause undo wear in older engines. I've seen on this forum that it causes cam damage. Has anyone really experienced this? Or is it second hand knowledge? Some say to add zinc but does that really help? Looking on the internet, there are comments both ways. I have several old tractors and would like to know what to do.

Thanks in advance.

have several 1950's tractors, combine and I have been putting anything oily in them for 50 years and all is well. I even found some non-detergent oil that my Dad bought around 1960 and used it. I don't do the same with our newer tractors.

oldwrencher · Mar 13, 2023

I used to work at a Massey/Oliver dealership and the only oil failure we ever saw was caused by lack of oil. We did not have a large number of newer tractors out. My newest personal is a 1991 and they all get 15w40 except one oil burner and it gets new rings shortly.

rusty6 · Mar 13, 2023

I see a lot of discussion about the lack of zinc in the new oils and how it might (or might not) be a problem for old car engines like my flathead Mercury. I'm using DMO 15w-40 in it and not worrying about buying zinc additives. Its almost the same controversy that arose when they took the lead out of gas. Some claimed it was going to ruin the valves and seats on the engines of older vehicles and machines if they did not have lead in the gas. That must be 30 years ago. All my old engines seem to run fine and no valve problems using modern gas.

DeltaRed · Mar 13, 2023

Same with me.

docmirror · Mar 14, 2023

I have seen more than one cam lobe failure in vintage Porsche engines where the oil did not have enough ZDDP(zinc additive). I have also seen a cam lobe failure on a Lamborghini engine with dual spring valves also attributed to oil issues.

Being this is a tractor forum, I doubt one would see catastrophic engine damage by using a newer oil as long as the rating on the oil exceeded the original single vis rating.

So, based on the topical question it is a fact that some types of older engines have certainly been damaged by newer oils. Most vendors 'racing' oils have a ZDDP content above 1200ppm

Having said that, one of the byproducts of ZDDP in engine oils is high Phosphorus content also. A too high concentration of ZDDP and Phosphorus can lead to ring sticking, and brittleness and potential problems with exh seat and seal damage and cat damage as well. It's a balancing act. I use Valvoline ZR1 seems to be a good compromise. There are other brands.

This post was edited by docmirror on 03/14/2023 at 12:31 pm.

Tim PloughNman Daley RIP · Mar 14, 2023

My late uncle once told me they used to run everything and anything in their old FORDS. He said they did always add STP in the oil though. STP. HHHMMM. Probably the
worlds' first snake oil product. Back when I used my 8N to mow 5 acres with, teh engine was worn and in need of a rebuild. I would save my used oil from my F-250 oil
changes and use that in my 8N and never had a problem. I'd agree the older FORDS are OK but anything over mid-1960's I'd wouldn't.

Tim Daley(MI)

r.w.b. · Mar 14, 2023

rotella 15/40 in everything i own used it in A,630,4010 john deere and VAC,312,411B,411,500 case never a problem. my 4440 used jd oil but warrenty thing

dhermesc · Mar 14, 2023

Agreed. The zinc additive in some racing oils is for high performance high revving engines with flat tappets and high resistance valve springs. Many of these older tractor engines (1950s and older)
were designed to run on nondetergent oil - that means zero additives. The current engine oils are so much better the lack of zinc is of no importance.

If you have to have zinc in your oil the two brands with the highest concentrates today are Comp Cams Engine Break in Oil, and Champion Power Sheild Break in Oil. They also have an equally high amount
of phosphorous.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-toolbox/zddp-content-chart-high-zinc-oil-list-brand-breakdown/32479

Stephen Newell · Mar 14, 2023

I don't know, I bought a 1975 Jeep and put a rebuilt engine in it. Since it was that era vehicle I used straight 30 weight oil in it and the oil pressure ran 10psi or less. I contacted the place where I bought the engine and they sent me to the factory that did the engine and everybody seem to think it was alright. The books I had on the engine said the oil pressure should run 35 to 40 psi. Then one day I went to change the oil and discovered I was out of 30w oil after I drained the oil so I put some 5w-30 oil in it I had for my work van. The oil pressure went up to 35psi so I've been using it ever since.

Today's Oils Engine damage older engines. Myth or Fact?

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