Starting a diesel with ether

chas036 · Jan 16, 2023

I am just curious if using ether to start a diesel tractor is something that is recommended by manufacturers? I am looking at buying an older MF 85 diesel and the dealer told me that it will only start with
ether , even in warm weather. I questioned that procedure, and the dealer told me that ether was the recommended starting method to start these engines by Massey at that time. From my understanding of
diesels, I thought ether is only used when the rings are worn and the compression is poor, and that it can damage the engine if used a lot. Am i correct?

This post was edited by chas036 on 01/16/2023 at 06:51 pm.

the tractor vet · Jan 16, 2023

Well even and OLD Massy 85 with summer temps or any time it is above say 50 degrees and you have to use either Either or now with the older I H tractors that had Glow plug on them ya had to use the glow plug on a 100 degree day but the other brands they started with out ONLY when that engines is plum slap wore out then ya would have to squirt it . They are low on compression or a weak injection pump and injectors . either can be vary hard on and engine as you can cause piston rings to break ,ya can have a head gskt failure or turn it into a either addict .

rusty6 · Jan 16, 2023

Perkins diesel I'm guessing, similar to the one in my Super 90 Massey. No, it should not need ether to start if the temperature is above freezing. Injectors could be bad, compression low, or engine just worn out. On mine it really improved the starting after having the head planed, injectors cleaned. I don't think I've ever used ether on it.

M-MAN · Jan 16, 2023

Don't know about the other manufacturers but Deere put an ether cannister on ng's to give them a controlled sniff to start. Yes too much is bad.

rustred · Jan 16, 2023

There is lots that comes into play. Mostly The injection system on different engines. Some engines use an intake manifold heater. Some use glow plugs. Is this the Perkins engine ? Nice to know what engine u are referring to. I am not up on all Massey stuff. The Ihc 06 series has either cans mounted right from the factory on the engine. Same with my Perkins 354 Massey combine. Sure they start in warm weather , but in cooler weather it needs a shot. Starting fluid harms the engine when u give it too much or on a warm engine.

centash · Jan 16, 2023

I think those had the Continental 277 diesel...you can see some similarities between it and the MH diesels in a 444.....but if it needs ether to start when warm, it's likely worn out. A sniff about one half of a second long when cranking, should be all that's needed to start a good diesel in cold weather.

Ben

Goose · Jan 16, 2023

I'd go with what was recommended for that tractor at the time. This is not a 'one size fits all' issue.

An 856 Farmall I owned had an ether injector built in by the factory to use if necessary. The D19 Allis I own now has always liked a whiff of ether to start cold except if the temp is over 80 degrees and it's sitting in the sun.

MSD · Jan 16, 2023

Ever see them start a diesel pulling tractor. The big smokers anyway. They will use can after can trying to get them to light up.

buickanddeere · Jan 16, 2023

(quoted from post at 00:39:39 01/17/23) Ever see them start a diesel pulling tractor. The big smokers anyway. They will use can after can trying to get them to light up.

The puller Diesels have low mechanical compression , effective compression made even lower with long duration cam shafts .
Of course at low rpm there will not be high enough temperatures from compression to ignite diesel fuel .

MarkB_MI · Jan 17, 2023

Many of the tractors of the sixties and seventies came from the factory with an ether port. Maybe they would start in warm weather without ether when new, but certainly not once they had some wear.

Dieseltech · Jan 17, 2023

The Continental HD 277 used in the MF 85 came with a Thermostart intake heater. If the heater works right use it for 15 seconds, then turn key to heat/start position to start engine. The Continental NEVER started good cold like the MF Super 90 with the Perkins A4.300 engine does. I've had a couple 85 diesels in years past, and when the Thermostart didn't work the ether can came out.

560Dennis · Jan 17, 2023

I wouldnt use it . Pre detonation from put tremendous pressure on bending connections rods ,starter armature bendix, Head-gasket, cylinder wall , and starter nose. To name a few.
Your choice, but good set of glow plugs ,less expensive , compression test will tell you if that the compression is unacceptable , in that case get it fixed .
Either just bust more in rebuilds repairs, not a problem if you got a lot of money to throw away.

showcrop · Jan 17, 2023

As others have said a good many trucks and tractors came from the factory with ether injection for COLD weather starts. Needing it in warm temperatures indicates near end of life wear. Unless of course the friendly dealer is willing to demonstrate to you that the compression is good.

bigred520 · Jan 17, 2023

My Belarus 520 , 1982 need ether all the time except when engine is hot. i know i have to check all the glow plugs and clean the injectors ( maybe just put additive in the fuel tank...???...)
Now the tractor is out for the winter because of few things need to be fix. ...but wondering how bad it will be hard to start below freezing point up North here in Canada...if i had hard time starting it without ether...in the summer...?

Blackhole49 · Jan 17, 2023

If used properly, ether will not ruin a tractor. I have 3 Kubotas and a Yanmar(in JD) in compact tractors. All have glow plugs and start right up with the plugs. 2 will start in 80+ but will crank a while to do it (why would I?). The other 2 won't start without them period. My buddy has a well worn Kubota in an old Bobcat skidsteer. The glow plugs have never worked and he has been starting it with a whiff of ether for years. For me, it wouldn't be a deal breaker if the the motor was sound.

miangus · Jan 17, 2023

The trick to using ether is having the engine rolling over good and use as little as possible. Spraying ether into an engine that is barely rolling over and hoping for a miracle is not the way to go. When my folks where still logging dad bought ether by the case. Anybody remember, Mule Kick. I thought my boss, a none-farmer type, how to start his Datson diesel when the preheat system went bad. Just the smallest Wiff of ether and that little four cylinder would start.

James Babcock · Jan 17, 2023

My neighbor ran several Cat dozers back in the day and would soak a grease rag in gasoline and place it over the air intake. He didnt like to hear all the knocking from detonation when using ether. I have used that trick several times with good outcomes. Of course, for the safety police on this site, your results may vary..

Bob N.Y. · Jan 17, 2023

The 85 diesel is a Continental HD 277 engine. That was the big change from the 85 to the Super 90.

bigred520 · Jan 17, 2023

i had many tractors Kubota New from 23 yo 85 HP...and i never used ether ...never. Now i wanted to explore none conventional old tractor ave . All i know is when the glow plugs are goods ( they works or they dont...it's On or Off...like i light bulb) and the injectors are clean...good battery...aby tractors do not have to use ether... MPO.

JMOR · Jan 17, 2023

(quoted from post at 09:26:49 01/17/23) The trick to using ether is having the engine rolling over good and use as little as possible. Spraying ether into an engine that is barely rolling over and hoping for a miracle is not the way to go. When my folks where still logging dad bought ether by the case. Anybody remember, Mule Kick. I thought my boss, a none-farmer type, how to start his Datson diesel when the preheat system went bad. Just the smallest Wiff of ether and that little four cylinder would start.

Wiff" & "little as possible" are key words. Too much was witnessed by me as all pistons broken in an A.C. when too much applied.

Starting a diesel with ether

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