Ford 4000 - Considering Calcium Chloride when purchasing

I'm in search for a tractor. A 4000 ( which is on my target list ) is available locally but it has CC filled wheels and has rust forming around the valve stems on both rears.

To date I've avoided the posting but have yet to find an appropriate alternative.

I read some info which says forget it... the rims will out last you. While others feel it must be immediately addressed with significant hassle involved.

I don't want to purchase a big project going in as I know others will unexpectedly arise.

Any good schools of thought here?

I wouldn't consider it a big hassle unless the rims are rusted to Swiss cheese. Otherwise a bit of weld patching, grinding and perhaps a spray can of truck bed coating will fix them up.

I got a 4000 and the front rims were fairly badly rusted, took me a few hours to strip off the old tires and tubes, wire brush, weld a few spots, grind and coat before getting some new tires and tubes put on. The rears will probably need attention eventually but so far they are surviving.

Which 4000? Four cylinder or three?

Prior 4000 models (4 cylinder) used proprietary PA rims (unless fitted with 6-loop style at factory or afterward).

Early Ford PA rims have not been available from US manufacturers for decades and good used ones are difficult to find.

Recently, Chinese reproductions have become available but are expensive.

Something to consider.

(quoted from post at 04:57:25 01/03/23) Which 4000? Four cylinder or three?

Prior 4000 models (4 cylinder) used proprietary PA rims (unless fitted with 6-loop style at factory or afterward).

Early Ford PA rims have not been available from US manufacturers for decades and good used ones are difficult to find.

Recently, Chinese reproductions have become available but are expensive.

Something to consider.

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Thanks for the feedback. This is a 3 cylinder Gasser.

Depends on what you consider a big project. There is always a risk of needing rim/tire work with loaded tires at some point. If it is rusting around the stems, while it is not 100% to say it has a leak, that can be the first sign of a leak. It can be as simple as the valve cores need to be replaced, or a tube could have a bad spot and be seeping, with fluid finding its way out around the stem.

If you want to be sure there is not a problem, your first project would be to have the calcium removed and the tires/tubes dismounted. You would then have the rims cleaned and washed to neutralize any calcium action. Repair the rims as needed, prep and paint inside and out. Remount the tires with new, good quality tubes (don't go cheap). Then fill with the ballast of your choice, if you want/need ballast. Generally, if fixed properly there will be no problems for years to come, unless a tire/rim is damaged in use. JMHO

(quoted from post at 04:42:28 01/03/23) I wouldn't consider it a big hassle unless the rims are rusted to Swiss cheese. Otherwise a bit of weld patching, grinding and perhaps a spray can of truck bed coating will fix them up.

I got a 4000 and the front rims were fairly badly rusted, took me a few hours to strip off the old tires and tubes, wire brush, weld a few spots, grind and coat before getting some new tires and tubes put on. The rears will probably need attention eventually but so far they are surviving.

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My reality is that this machine will be going to a property where I don't even have electrical power ( use solar / generator ). Rebuilding rims in a fashion described above would not be a couple of hours at my well equipped shop. I am however, jealous of your setup and skill set.

Tractor rims are the least of the
things I'm concerned about when
purchasing a tractor. Sooner or
later they are all going to need
attention. When they stop holding
air they will be repaired or
replaced. The last tractor I bought
had one rim replaced just before I
bought it. The other one is cc
filled and will be replaced when it
no longer holds air.

Rims are easy. Couple hundred
bucks. It's the engine,
transmission and hydraulics that
really cost you. Those are what you
need to focus on. Rear tires are a
big factor too as they are
expensive.

I have two tractors that have rust around the valve stems, and neither have any fluid in them. But growing up, all of our tractors had CaCl2 in the rears, and we
never had any problems with them. As with most things mechanical, sometimes you never have a problem and other times all you have is problems. If the tractor is
good otherwise, I would not be overly concerned about the CaCl2 unless the rims are so far gone that they need immediate attention.

I wouldn't consider a little rust around the valve stems to be a deal-breaker. Eventually you'll need new tires and you can replace the rims at the same time. If the tires are in like-new condition, I might consider having a tire shop dismount them, clean up the rims, replace the tubes and ballast with a non-corrosive fluid. But chances are the tires will need replacing about the same time as the rims.

The tires on my four cylinder Ford 4000 rotted out 25 years after I bought it. The six-loop rims weren't salvageable and I replaced both tires and rims.

There is a local tire shop that does a lot of tractor tires.
They can repair rims and fill the tires with washer fluid.
Look for a tractor tire shop in your area.

I'm not sure what the dilemma is.

Rust indicates the tubes are leaking. If you get at it sooner rather than later, the less of a project it will be.

Pump the fluid out. Remove the tires and tubes. Clean and paint the rims. Install the tires and new tubes. Pump the fluid back in. Good for another 50 years.

As the rust damage is all from the back where you can't see it until the rim is pretty well gone it is difficult to tell from looking at the outside just how far along
the rust damage will be. Price new rims and figure you MAY have to spring for them. If the tubes have a leak and the rims are still good they won't be for long. If you
buy the tractor you should figure on taking the tires off and if the rims are still good cleaning/sandblasting the rims and painting them. Letting the paint cure for
several weeks so the tube won't stick when putting them back together with a repaired or good tube. And consider using something other than calcium for loading them.
Calcium is great until you get a few drops leaked between the tube and rim.

I'm with Barnyardengineering in this. Sure, I've seen rims rusted through, but my 1966 Oliver 1850 and 79 White 2-105 have had
chloride in them since they were new and there isn't a speck of rust on either one.

Best reply, The rust could be from a leaking valve core that has been
repaired and now not leaking. But best would be have tires pumped out, be
sure to save the CaCi to put back in, you will need it. Then remove the
tires and check tubes very well and possibly repair or replace, clean any
rust off and use a rust converter, then paint and then remount being sure
the tubes are in good condition if the old ones or new ones. And use after
putting that CaCi back in . You need the weight if you are going to do
anything heavy with the tractor. And that 3 cylinder is a good engine, only
thing that for me would be a deal breaker if it had the jerk-a-matic S O S
transmission. I had a 65 4000 and a 68 4000, both the 3 cylinder engines.
They were the 4100 models that means they had 38 rear wheels with 13-6x38
rear tires and both were loaded and cast weights as well. One had a loader
and in winter put changes on it and would still spin the tires in snow so
you do need all the weight you can get and CaCi is the best as long as you
keep an eye on the valve stems to spot a possible leak imideatly and fix it
instead of letting it go. That is the reason tractors have to get rims
replaced is because of neglect. And that valve stem is easy to keep an eye o
on the ones with 38 rubber, the 28 are harder to see the stem because of
less clearance. Tractor is rated at 52 PTO HP and one when we got it needed
engine rebuilt and dealer did that as part of the deal. The machine shop
messed up the rebore first time and had to rebore it a second time do that
gave a bit mpre power and it tested on dydo at 60 HP. We pulled a 3-16 plow
with it and a 3-14 with the other and a 12 foot disk or field cultivator.
We had duals for field work on both. Lost the farm due to medical bills or I
would still be using both tractors. Bought first in 1980 and second in 1984.

Rust around valve stem hole would likely be
caused from a seep in the tube. Wouldn't
have to be, but very likely. There would
also be a possibility that the seep has
been previously fixed, but the rust was
left as is during the fix, or has come
back.

I'm not sure if you can find out some
honest information from current owner,
beings the tractor is for sell. Hate to say
it, but welcome to 2023. Some sellers will
be honest with ya, and some won't. But, ...
the seller should be able to tell you if
the leaks have been fixed or not. Whether
you should believe them or not, is another
story and issue.

Assuming they haven't been fixed (the leaks
anyways), there is 2 different ways this
can go. You can fix immediately. Dismount
tires, clean up and re-paint rims, and re-
assemble and replacing the tubes with NEW
tubes. GOOD tubes if going back with fluid
filled. There are some cheap tubes out
there that you can buy, but you'll want the
GOOD ones for fluid.
The other way, is to not fix them until you
have to. This could vary and be 6 months or
6 years. You never know. Just add a little
air once in awhile, and keep using until
tractor tire won't hold air long enough to
do anything anymore. By this time, the rim
will likely be ruined, or at minimum will
need to be fixed with a patch job at the
valve stem hole area or rim just replaced
with a new or good used one. Not sure of
the availability of these rims, or how
expensive.
Back to the how long it will last if doing
nothing, I have seen them go so long the
metal of rim badly bubbles, then a big
chunk of the rim completely breaks out,
tube starts balloning out the hole and pops
just like a balloon. And I have seen the
valve stem hole get rough around the edges,
and damage the valve stem itself around the
outside, and more less establish a hole at
the base of the stem at the tube. I seen a
rim do this. It wasn't really badly rusted
except the inner edges of valve stem hole.
But it was rough enough to mess up the
rubber valve stem at its base to the tube.
So, the question of how long kind of
depends on how things develope and what
gives first. Rust is a cancer. And it will
eat through metal. It just all depends
where it messes up the tube at to the point
a hole being big enough it can't be aired
up anymore. There kind of isn't a way to
guess how that is going to go.

I would be pricing tubes and rims (what you
think would fix it now). And add the
expense of the work if not going to do it
yourself. Deduct that from the value that
YOU place on this tractor. See how that
compares to the asking price of this
tractor. If asking price is over the price
you came up with, then place the price you
came up with, as an OFFER. If no can do on
thier part, continue your search.

Depends. Knowing the worst-case scenario is 2 new rims, tubes, and friendlier fluid installed by an on-site service as the most expensive/least hassle solution,
get estimates and decide if that's a budgetary deal breaker for you. If the asking price of the tractor doesn't allow for such a potential expense, I'd make it a
point of negotiation and be prepared to walk away. If you're willing and able you to safely perform any of the work, subtract that from the $$$ cost and add in
the hassle/time factor, decide if it lands in your comfort zone. As mentioned, you could just run it and pray. Depends on how you intend to use it, how dangerous
a flat might be, how much you might worry about such a thing, and how easily you can handle the expense/hassle at any given time. I mentioned safely above: if
you've no experience with fluid filled tires, they are dangerously heavy. In my experience, the expense of an on-site ag tire service was worth it compared to
dealing with them full of fluid or pumping them out. If it's an otherwise good tractor at a good price, I wouldn't let it spoil the deal.

Used iron weights cost about $1 per pound. 14.9x28 rear tractor tires would hold around 550 pounds of liquid ballast per tire or 1100 pounds per pair. To replace the liquid weight with iron would cost $1100 in iron weights plus the cost to pump out the fluid and dispose of it.

Unless the rear tires need replacement now, I would run it as-is until it is time to replace the tires.

(quoted from post at 08:14:15 01/03/23)
Depends on what you consider a big project. There is always a risk of needing rim/tire work with loaded tires at some point. If it is rusting around the stems, while it is not 100% to say it has a leak, that can be the first sign of a leak. It can be as simple as the valve cores need to be replaced, or a tube could have a bad spot and be seeping, with fluid finding its way out around the stem.

If you want to be sure there is not a problem, your first project would be to have the calcium removed and the tires/tubes dismounted. You would then have the rims cleaned and washed to neutralize any calcium action. Repair the rims as needed, prep and paint inside and out. Remount the tires with new, good quality tubes (don't go cheap). Then fill with the ballast of your choice, if you want/need ballast. Generally, if fixed properly there will be no problems for years to come, unless a tire/rim is damaged in use. JMHO

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All Calcium Chloride loaded tires leak . It is just a matter of how much and for how long .

In the grand scheme of things, fixing rims is not a huge deal. An engine overhaul, a transmission, a coat of paint, even a clutch will cost
more with the labor. Don't let it bother you.

I would not consider the tires rims as deal breakers though a negotiate in price according to condition might be a possibility. We have tractors with loaded tires using Chloride in them and the rims are still good. H with original rims MD with the same rims it had when we got it 45-50 years ago. 806 with same rims since 1978 when I got the tractor and 856 1466 both with loaded tires. tires have given out on both before the rims rotted out and have the same rims with new tires on the 1466 with Chloride back in both tires on it. 856 is in the process of some different tires due to wear and age. One is loaded and one is not at this time. Non loaded one had water in it from TX so had to drain out. Since the 806and 856 don't do much for pulling hard anymore I might not reload the tires and just put iron weights on them just to get out of the liquid pumping. On the other hand I might just load them to get rid of the juice setting around.