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What's with my oil

stevieb49829

stevieb49829

Well-known Member
Location
Spirit Lake, Idaho
I'm changing oil on a MH 101 Jr. with a Continental F-162 gas engine. I acquired the tractor about 3 years ago, and when I got it I pulled and cleaned the pan, oil filter housing and all the associated lines. There was tar-like sludge in the pan. After cleaning, I filled it with Rotella 15-40 heavy duty diesel engine oil, and used the tractor for about 100 hours. It used some oil, but the tractor is 76 years old. The oil that came out during my oil change today is black, and sludge-like. And there were gritty particles (carbon?) attached to the drain plug (not metal though). Albeit it is cool today, I would think a 15-40 oil would not be like this. I'm thinking the new oil, with its cleansing additives broke loose a whole lot of gunk in a neglected engine. My question is: Should I pull the pan and clean it again, or just rely on the next couple of oil changes to flush all this stuff out of the internals? I checked the mains when I had the pan off and they looked good. The engine holds 20 psi oil pressure, hot, idle. I checked that with another gauge, because I didn't trust the one in the dash. Should I worry about any sludge that didn't come out the drain? steve
 
The detergents in the modern oil are cleaning your previously neglected engine. Sounds like you should have been changing it every 30 or 40 hours. You may not know this but your tractor has what is called a bypass oil filter system. This means the filter is only filtering a stream of oil coming through something like a 1/16 inch hole. This is unlike modern engines and probably most engines from the 1960s on that have a full flow oil filter system. In a full flow system all the oil going to the bearings is filtered, in your engine it is not. So be warned, when you have grungy dirty oil in the oil pan you are pushing that right into your bearings accelerating wear.
 
(quoted from post at 14:57:24 10/19/22) I'm changing oil on a MH 101 Jr. with a Continental F-162 gas engine. I acquired the tractor about 3 years ago, and when I got it I pulled and cleaned the pan, oil filter housing and all the associated lines. There was tar-like sludge in the pan. After cleaning, I filled it with Rotella 15-40 heavy duty diesel engine oil, and used the tractor for about 100 hours. It used some oil, but the tractor is 76 years old. The oil that came out during my oil change today is black, and sludge-like. And there were gritty particles (carbon?) attached to the drain plug (not metal though). Albeit it is cool today, I would think a 15-40 oil would not be like this. I'm thinking the new oil, with its cleansing additives broke loose a whole lot of gunk in a neglected engine. My question is: Should I pull the pan and clean it again, or just rely on the next couple of oil changes to flush all this stuff out of the internals? I checked the mains when I had the pan off and they looked good. The engine holds 20 psi oil pressure, hot, idle. I checked that with another gauge, because I didn't trust the one in the dash. Should I worry about any sludge that didn't come out the drain? steve
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How long, calendar wise, was the 100 hours since the last change? Did you take it out and work it so as to have it up to operating temperature and do a hot drain? Black I would expect. "Sludge like" sounds like a cold drain or you really have a problem,
 
Won't hurt to pull the pan and clean it again
If it is a diesel, oil will be black, guaranteed. Modern oils will probably wash deposits out of places you don't even know about. Probably regular oil changes will do from now on, unless you have lots of leakage around rings.
 
If you only cleaned the pan and pump there was still more sludge through the rest of the engine and the new oil cleaned it out. As said here pull the pan again, then keep an eye on it.
 
I don't think I've ever removed a pan it didn't have some sludge. I've started using full synthetic to alleviate some of that.
 
Why not do it the simple way. Do another oil change and filter, run it for a few hours and then another one. Maybe try 10w30 for those. I suspect it should clear up.
 
My reply to Ray was made , as he said if it was a diesel the oil would be black . Why do you wish to pick a fight with me? I know what the original post said. And I once had a MH 101 Jr Twin Power, and I am familiar with these tractors. Thanks for setting me straight, if I need your help in the future, Ill be sure to call on you.
 
I would change the more oil frequently, and see if that does help clean up the oil. I've noticed once something has ran longer than it should, it takes a few oil changes to get it cleaner again. To me changing is the cheapest insurance you can have for an engine. Mark.
 
Unless you are using this tractor for some heavy tillage and working it for a few days per year I would just change the oil each year regardless of hours. The setting will let acids from the oil build up if not run fairly hard on occasion to dispel them from the crankcase. Ultimately condensation, light use and setting in the shed or outside will cause buildup of crud in the oil pan over time.
 
Good info, guys. I think I will pull the pan, because it was a cold drain and I may have left some behind that would have come out if the engine was hot. There was some sludge in the filter canister too, but that's clean now. Luckily none of it was a milkshake. The thick black globs that slithered out of the drain is what has me concerned.
 
Jim, the 100 hours was over a 3 year period. But most times that I ran it was enough to bring it up to temp. However, most of those times it wasn't grunt work, just moving logs or a few yards of compost moved around the yard. It probably never really got hot enough to boil off condensation in the engine, except for a couple of times of stump pulling. The sludge was definitely not water-based, unless the detergents in the oil have it really well suspended. No milkshake! I know what that looks like.
 
Ray, I assume that if the rings are leaking bad, I'd have fairly heavy, and maybe dark blowby? I have none. But I do think its burning some oil. I don't have any chronic leaks, and it was down about 1.5 quarts when I drained it today. I'm estimating the 100 hours of use.
 
Bruce, I could sympathize with you, IF we had a bunch of rainy cold days. Come visit N. Idaho tomorrow to witness our likely last bluebird day this season. The whole fall has been sunny, and 70. Dry and smoky. I think some of the smoke is of Canadian origin!! And I agree with Pete: that's not like you (I pay a lot of attention to your posts). steve
 
(quoted from post at 22:13:16 10/19/22) Jim, the 100 hours was over a 3 year period. But most times that I ran it was enough to bring it up to temp. However, most of those times it wasn't grunt work, just moving logs or a few yards of compost moved around the yard. It probably never really got hot enough to boil off condensation in the engine, except for a couple of times of stump pulling. The sludge was definitely not water-based, unless the detergents in the oil have it really well suspended. No milkshake! I know what that looks like.
Click to expand...

There can be particles in the oil while running that will settle out as it cools and some may adhere to the pan, along with a thicker film of the oil, when the oil is cold. Right or wrong I am a believer in draining the oil while hot, right after shutting the engine down. I believe a hot drain, drains cleaner.
 
Stephen, I use full synthetic in both our newer vehicles. My concern is they seem really thin, no matter what weight you buy, and I'm not sure my 76 year old engine would like that! I intentionally used the diesel oil this first time, to clean the inside of this neglected engine. I just wasn't prepared for how much stuff it moved from surfaces inside the engine, into the pan. I'm pulling the pan one more time, cleaning it again, and since I already bought it, put the Rotella in it. I'll probably use it hard this winter moving snow, then change it again in the spring. It should stay cleaner after that. steve
 
Used Red: I knew about the oil filter system. I still can't figure out why they bothered, at all. In fact, I've been doing a little thinking about if it is possible to convert it to a full pressure filter system. Probably not, since the oil pump pumps directly to the mains. Or, I use it 'till the bearings go out, and shoehorn a modern V-6 between the frame rails. That's why I like this tractor's design: I can put almost any engine in it, IF I REALLY WANT TO. Thanks for your help. steve
 
The 15w40 diesel oil... first off has anti clumping compounds that will keep sludge from forming or particles from sticking together...Second comes with a base number of 11 to 12.. so there are NO worries about acids forming for a very long time. Third, will slowly clean the engine, but keep the deposits in very small particles from the first statement. SO>>> while you may flush a whole lot of loose crud out the first time that was loosely scattered about the engine, after a good running and first flush, it should settle down to fine cleaning, and protecting the engine. So you might consider an early oil change the first time, then normal changes from that point on. If you had a full flow filter system, I would not change the oil early the first time.
 
Thanks, Bill You're reinforcing my thoughts that if I get all this initial crud out of the engine, it will get better by the next oil change. I may switch to full synthetic next time, but I'm not convinced yet that the diesel oil is not doing a really good job in this gas engine. steve
 
Nothing cleans like hot oil. No matter how clean you thought you got that engine running it with a high detergent oil broke lose additional sludge. I bet it will look better next oil change.
 

I think it loosened up a bunch of old crude and washed it into the pan. I'd just change the oil again and whe it get dirty change it again. That's haw I do it on old engines,
 
I can't tell the difference in viscosity in the two oils. I use the synthetic in gas engines to cut down on the sludge in an engine. In diesel engines I continue to use diesel oil.
 
I pulled the pan, and there was more crud that didn't drain. Quite a bit of carbon grit, too. However, the pump pickup screen looked good. A lot of ash still stuck to places inside the block yet, but it is loosening up. I'm going to run the 10-40 Rotella through it once more, work it hard, and change it again after this winter snow plowing. That will probably come out pretty bad again, but that's good. I'll go from there on deciding how often I need to change it, and maybe go to synthetic.
 
I am just happy that you have an old tractor, and that you are getting some work and use out of it. I think you have figured out the oil situation.

Garry
 
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