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273 NH baler timing problem

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crawlercrow

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I am trying to time an old 273 NH baler.I set the timing marks as described in the manual with plunger in correct position. I can turn the machine through rotation but when I trip the knotter it will only go until the needles are at full penetration then the Knotter will not turn any further without breaking the Knotter cam shear pin. I have tried removing the needle Yoke rod but makes no difference. I have even changed the entire Knotter assembly with the same result.
 
I dont know NH balers but JD 24T baler knotters were chain driven. The chains would stretch causing the timing to be off no matter what. Newer JD baler knotters are gear driven for that reason.
 
When you need to see the parts moving to find the problem, get a helper to turn the flywheel, very gently, until it stops. Then have your helper turn the flywheel backwards until the knotter begins turning, then turn it forward again until it hits the obstruction. Repeat this over and over while looking at every moving part. Sometimes you can hear it when two parts make contact that are not supposed to. Since the clutch will not turn the knotter shaft backwards, you will need to clamp a pair of vise-grips somewhere on the shaft so you can turn the shaft backwards as your assistant turns the flywheel. My first thought was the plunger lock, but you specifically said knotter shear pin; but the plunger would have locked long before the needles got that high in the chamber. Also bothers me its doing the same thing after changing the knotter assembly. Without being there to see it we are kind of shooting in the dark, but I think rocking it back and forth against the obstruction you will eventually find out what is hitting.
 
This is turning by hand. I have turned it to the point it breaks the shear pin (knotter) so I can't figure out where it could be binding that tight. I have another 273 that turns
over by hand and continues into the tying cycle without issue at the same point the other one stops. Got me baffled right now. I'm thinking it must be somewhere else other than the
knotter as I have put an entirely different knotter assembly in without any change to the problem.
 
I think Northvale has a suggestion that really needs to be investigated. I have heard of this same issue on other brands that drive the knotter by chain. The balers I am familiar with are IH and they all drove the knotter off the back side of the stuffer crank, which was driven by a shaft and gear set off the right side of the plunger crank. You definitely do not want the stuffer out of time from the plunger.
 
I found the problem! The billhook was catching on the cutter fork. Somehow the billhook got on wrong side, perhaps the tensioner was set too loose. I noticed someone had put a very long bolt on the tension adjuster and it was completely striped. also found a crack in the cast cutter fork when I lifted the knotter. I replaced the cutter rod with another I had but found out the bill hook will not pass the cutter rod when lifting the knotter now. I know they are close but is too tight too pass. Any thoughts on this issue anyone?
 
It would seem that something in the knotter stack is not moving. I'd probably start by flipping each knotter assembly up and making sure the wiper arms move freely and the assembly rotates on the drive shaft. I'd probably also loosen or remove the needle brake to eliminate that. The have someone rock the flywheel while watching closely what's going on with the knotters. Possibly a twine disc is stuck or billhook seized. I can't say for sure but I'd suspect something in there is not right.

Rod
 
The !st picture shows the problem of the billhook catching the knife lever (the one I replaced) The other side goes by okay. Is it a knife lever difference or something else?
https://imgur.com/BF88PPn
https://imgur.com/Prnx4bj
https://imgur.com/O7AoVyW
 
The stripper arm is bent. It should just lightly contact the hook for the last 1/2 inch before it passes the end of the billhook. Hose down the knotter area with water and heat it up a little bit and bend it enough so it can get back over the billhook on the return stroke. That being said, I am confused as to how you can have 2 knotter assemblies with the exact same damage.... therefore, I would suggest you get a New Holland knotter service book and see what they say about this problem before you start bending things. That just happens to be the adjustment procedure on other model balers, may not be applicable here.
 
OR... there is too much end play of the billhook assembly, allowing it to drop down behind the stripper arm as it passes the end of the billhook , thus breaking the shear pin when the arm tries to return home. Not having seen that baler, I would guess 5 thousandths of end play is permissible, but if you can clearly see it sliding in and out of the knotter frame, you need to get a machinery washer to tighten it up. The washer would go between the drive pinion and the knotter frame. If this turns out to be the problem, be sure to mark the position of the pinion to the billhook shaft before you take it apart. Want to avoid installing it 180 degrees off.
 
You were correct Fritz, the arm was bent. The manual mentioned this problem and that was the corrective procedure to fix it. Everything seems to turn as it should now. I am almost ready to try it on power. Apparently the fellow I recently purchased these 2 balers from had a major wreck ,breaking the plunger shaft and both needles in this baler. I have adjusted the latch lever to prevent another incident from occurring in the future. I am hoping to try this baler in the field soon as the 1st crop is ready to drop.

Thanks for your input. Crawlercrow.
 
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