- Thread starter Geo-TH,In
- Start date
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
#1 Who knows??
#2 NO
#3 NO
#2 NO
#3 NO
fastfarmall
Well-known Member
Not in the winter, for me! Been there tried that!
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Go to your local grocery store and you can easily see the variety of vegetable oils produced. Corn, soybean, canola, sesame, grapeseed, avocado, olive, to name a few. The product "vegetable oil" is a blend of different oils.
Most likely the oils will be produced from the most plentiful grains, soybeans and corn.
I guess it's bad for farmers if you are the type that thinks farmers should only produce food, and should just shut up and live with the low commodity prices of food production. Farmers should just suffer like they had to.
"Food or fuel" is a false argument. Even with ethanol we have plenty of food, and millions upon millions of acres of unused farmland to tap into. Something like 40% of the food produced gets thrown away. There are hungry people but it's not for lack of food supply. Distribution, and money are the problems.
Finally, the ones who crab about "lack of lubricity" in ULSD should embrace bio with open arms. A little bio in the tank is as good as any snake oil additive.
Most likely the oils will be produced from the most plentiful grains, soybeans and corn.
I guess it's bad for farmers if you are the type that thinks farmers should only produce food, and should just shut up and live with the low commodity prices of food production. Farmers should just suffer like they had to.
"Food or fuel" is a false argument. Even with ethanol we have plenty of food, and millions upon millions of acres of unused farmland to tap into. Something like 40% of the food produced gets thrown away. There are hungry people but it's not for lack of food supply. Distribution, and money are the problems.
Finally, the ones who crab about "lack of lubricity" in ULSD should embrace bio with open arms. A little bio in the tank is as good as any snake oil additive.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
Corn or soybeans would be able to make bio out of. Both are used to make vegetable oil with. As for the farmer I figure they would get the sh tty end of the stick no matter how it is done. If the fool not my president would allow them to drill on the permits already issued it would not be a problem just the fools pushing their green weeny agenda.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Just this week I made some brownies and out of curiosity I looked to see what the vegetable oil was
exactly.
Wesson brand vegetable oil.
There is no mention anywhere as to type of oil(s) are in it.
exactly.
Wesson brand vegetable oil.
There is no mention anywhere as to type of oil(s) are in it.
It gives you less mile per gallon just like the ethanol blend. Sure it may be a little cheaper at the pump,but when you consume more and need to fill up more often what is the benefit? And who knows what kind of damage it could be causing the the engine. Had a coworker recently drive out to California and he saw a bio diesel pump and figured he'd try it cause it was cheaper. His mile per gallon was almost cut in half. Ask anyone that owns a flex fuel vehicle if they use E85. Not many do for the same reason. Basically we need to keep crops out of the tanks.
They buy the vehical because they like it. Not to be using E85 because it is not avaible so if not avaible they cannot use it. Only saw one station that ever had an E85 pump and that was in anouther state 80 mile from me. And I live within 20 mile of 2 big refinerys and the world headquarters of Marathon.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Biodiesel does not cut fuel efficiency in half. Its about a 10% reduction due to the lower energy content.
Additionally E85 very popular in many areas, depending on your vehicle you get a 0-25% drop in economy. The spread is some e85 vehicles can crank up the timing map or alter the turbo management to not make it a straight 25% drop.
Additionally E85 very popular in many areas, depending on your vehicle you get a 0-25% drop in economy. The spread is some e85 vehicles can crank up the timing map or alter the turbo management to not make it a straight 25% drop.
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
Oil can come from soy, canola, cottonseed, corn (by-product of ethanol)
My diesel has had a small blend of bio diesel in it for the past 10 years.
It works fine, burn 12-15k gallons a year. I add no additional additives, rarely need to change a filter except in the spring when I do all of them, don't have gelling issues in the winter.
My diesel has had a small blend of bio diesel in it for the past 10 years.
It works fine, burn 12-15k gallons a year. I add no additional additives, rarely need to change a filter except in the spring when I do all of them, don't have gelling issues in the winter.
john in la
Well-known Member
Nothing new.
Darling Ingredients and Valero have a refinery in Norco La.
They use feedstock from Darling and the production and marketing logistics of Valero to make and sell 400 million gallons of bio diesel a year. Been open since 2013.
They have plans to build a similar refinery in Port Arthur Texas next year.
The joint venture name is Diamond Green Diesel.
When we buy fuel at work off sight we use Loves Truck Stop.
Lots of their stores sell only bio diesel from B5 to B20.
I have never noticed any difference in performance from pure diesel to B20.
Still get over 8 mpg with either per the company installed computer that monitors engine/truck data.
Darling Ingredients and Valero have a refinery in Norco La.
They use feedstock from Darling and the production and marketing logistics of Valero to make and sell 400 million gallons of bio diesel a year. Been open since 2013.
They have plans to build a similar refinery in Port Arthur Texas next year.
The joint venture name is Diamond Green Diesel.
When we buy fuel at work off sight we use Loves Truck Stop.
Lots of their stores sell only bio diesel from B5 to B20.
I have never noticed any difference in performance from pure diesel to B20.
Still get over 8 mpg with either per the company installed computer that monitors engine/truck data.
mudcreek183
Member
Local man was refining bio diesel for several year and selling it , it was pure bio no fossil fuel at all I ran it for a few years in several older tractors with no problems. He got bought by a larger Co. and everything when down hill from there. The large Co. was getting poorly refined fuel at the end they closed up shop and could not be found. They were being sued by anyone that bought from them for damages to fuel systems.
Minnesota has been running 2-20% biodiesel for maybe a decade now? Most folk dont even know....
So, the politicians and eco folk are shutting down petroleum. It just is, Im not trying to stir up politics, it just is for now.
That plant was closing, and a different co saw opportunity to use the plant to make bio fuel.
There is a big political push to do that, and the company is trying to move forward with that.
Eco folks are actually against it. They only want electric, no liquid fuels any more.
So we will see if it goes or not.
For farmers and the population in general, it is a good thing.
Many oil seed crops are processed into oil and cake. The cake is used to feed livestock, the oil is used for food, ink, plastics, fuel, and many many other things. If we use more oil crops, we end up with more cheaper livestock feed.
For population in general, we have a shortage of liquid fuels right now. Adding a bit more diesel fuel processing is a good thing.
An argument is food vs fuel, with global food shortages we shouldnt be burning our food. But the oil crops already are separated into oil and cake. We cant eat all the oil, its already being used for many industrial uses.
Soybeans, canola, flax, sunflower, and many other oil crops can be used. Palm oil and other such in other regions of the world.
Corn can be a pretty big supplier too, it does not have a lot of oil but when corn is processed into its different parts of seed hull, starch, protein, and all. It is easy to extract the oil from it. Doesnt take much away from the feed value of the corn.....
Animal fat can also be used, a rendering plant near me has been part of the minnesota bio diesel since the beginning, it is the most difficult, as there have been more problems with the animal fat wanting to revert to lard in the fuel systems, but if the are careful it can work.
So, it seems to bE a real thing that can really work. It has been already in states like minnesota.
There can be a lot of politics involved, but I hope dont go there for now.
So, the politicians and eco folk are shutting down petroleum. It just is, Im not trying to stir up politics, it just is for now.
That plant was closing, and a different co saw opportunity to use the plant to make bio fuel.
There is a big political push to do that, and the company is trying to move forward with that.
Eco folks are actually against it. They only want electric, no liquid fuels any more.
So we will see if it goes or not.
For farmers and the population in general, it is a good thing.
Many oil seed crops are processed into oil and cake. The cake is used to feed livestock, the oil is used for food, ink, plastics, fuel, and many many other things. If we use more oil crops, we end up with more cheaper livestock feed.
For population in general, we have a shortage of liquid fuels right now. Adding a bit more diesel fuel processing is a good thing.
An argument is food vs fuel, with global food shortages we shouldnt be burning our food. But the oil crops already are separated into oil and cake. We cant eat all the oil, its already being used for many industrial uses.
Soybeans, canola, flax, sunflower, and many other oil crops can be used. Palm oil and other such in other regions of the world.
Corn can be a pretty big supplier too, it does not have a lot of oil but when corn is processed into its different parts of seed hull, starch, protein, and all. It is easy to extract the oil from it. Doesnt take much away from the feed value of the corn.....
Animal fat can also be used, a rendering plant near me has been part of the minnesota bio diesel since the beginning, it is the most difficult, as there have been more problems with the animal fat wanting to revert to lard in the fuel systems, but if the are careful it can work.
So, it seems to bE a real thing that can really work. It has been already in states like minnesota.
There can be a lot of politics involved, but I hope dont go there for now.
We are making a 5% blend work here in minnesota in winter.
For sure the bio oils gell up sooner and if you would use a high blend of bio oil you would need it refined different or much more additives. ($$$)
At 5% blend its not a big difference.
A positive of the bio oils is they add in lubricity. We lost that when sulfur was removed from diesel. Even a 2% blend restores the lubricity to your fuel, a very good thing.
Paul
For sure the bio oils gell up sooner and if you would use a high blend of bio oil you would need it refined different or much more additives. ($$$)
At 5% blend its not a big difference.
A positive of the bio oils is they add in lubricity. We lost that when sulfur was removed from diesel. Even a 2% blend restores the lubricity to your fuel, a very good thing.
Paul
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Screwed up the gas might as well screw up the diesel.
john in la
Well-known Member
While soybeans are king in the states if we really wanted to go down the bio diesel road soybeans are not the answer.
Things like canola and rapeseed can produce way more bio diesel per acre.
Things like canola and rapeseed can produce way more bio diesel per acre.
Carlmac 369
Member
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Yeabut the way things were were better.
Fritz Maurer
Well-known Member
I tried some about 15 years ago, and it was ok, but in Ohio it was more expensive than straight diesel. I wanted to help support the advancement, but for small time operation all it did was raise operating costs. And it was not convenient to procure it either.... more effort than going to my local fuel distributor. Maybe things have changed since then, but unless its cheaper than diesel, bio is not in my future.
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
Good thorough explanation.
Carlmac 369
Member
Agreed. Likely didn't enlighten, let alone change, any hard set minds though.
Bio diesel is good for diesel engines. B-5, B-20 bio-diesel fuel has more lubricity than straight diesel fuel. Easier on injectors & injection fuel pumps. It pollutes less , emits less soot, making for cleaner air. Stretches out our limited petroleum supply. Indiana is 4 th largest producer of soybeans in the states. Most bio-diesel is made from soybean oil here. Farmer co-ops sell it here. They are not going to sell a fuel to farmers to put in a 200,000 dollar tractor that ruins the engine. Or that trashes the diesel engine in a grain hauling semi truck many farmers have. There are 4 or 5 processing plants making bio-diesel here. Some of them produce soybean meal as a by-product that is excellent feed supplement for chickens & pigs. I would guess 20 -25 % of the 89 million acres of U S soybeans to be planted this month will be put in with tractors running blended bio-diesel fuel. It is a win for the environment, the farmer, the rural economy, folks that breath air.
OP
OP
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
I didn't know that.
Something has to be profitable or why would Marathon convert over to making a bio-diesel plant from a crude oil plan??
I wonder if there isn't something else that will generate more plant base oil?
I Only hope this is good for the american farmer and makes the US more independent.
Something has to be profitable or why would Marathon convert over to making a bio-diesel plant from a crude oil plan??
I wonder if there isn't something else that will generate more plant base oil?
I Only hope this is good for the american farmer and makes the US more independent.
kcm.MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- NW Minnesota
It [i:065c7ff02a]could [/i:065c7ff02a]also be all one oil, although that is unlikely.
Exactly.
Great answer BE!!
john in la
Well-known Member
[b:654c4848f0]Something has to be profitable or why would Marathon convert over to making a bio-diesel plant from a crude oil plan??[/b:654c4848f0]
Let me see if I can explain this to you.
(just using numbers off the top of my head)
Refineries that sell fuel deal in carbon credits.
You make nothing but pure diesel fuel.
For that the government gives you one carbon credit per gallon.
You make 100 gallons of diesel you get 100 credits.
Remember diesel is a dirty fuel.
I make nothing but bio diesel.
Since bio diesel is a clean fuel the government gives me 3 credits per gallon.
For 100 gallons of bio I get 300 credits.
Now it is the end of the month and we both need to settle up with the government.
The government wants 2 credits for every gallon we sold.
So for our 100 gallons the government wants 200 credits.
Problem is you only have 100 credits so you are 100 credits short.
Since I have 100 extra credits you come to me and want to buy my extra credits.
Let me change that; you not only want to buy them you HAVE to buy them to settle up with the government or they will shut you down.
After paying my price you make a business decision to make 50 gallons of diesel and 50 gallons of bio diesel next month so you will not have to buy credits on the open market.
Let me see if I can explain this to you.
(just using numbers off the top of my head)
Refineries that sell fuel deal in carbon credits.
You make nothing but pure diesel fuel.
For that the government gives you one carbon credit per gallon.
You make 100 gallons of diesel you get 100 credits.
Remember diesel is a dirty fuel.
I make nothing but bio diesel.
Since bio diesel is a clean fuel the government gives me 3 credits per gallon.
For 100 gallons of bio I get 300 credits.
Now it is the end of the month and we both need to settle up with the government.
The government wants 2 credits for every gallon we sold.
So for our 100 gallons the government wants 200 credits.
Problem is you only have 100 credits so you are 100 credits short.
Since I have 100 extra credits you come to me and want to buy my extra credits.
Let me change that; you not only want to buy them you HAVE to buy them to settle up with the government or they will shut you down.
After paying my price you make a business decision to make 50 gallons of diesel and 50 gallons of bio diesel next month so you will not have to buy credits on the open market.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Marathon has more than one refinery making biodiesel and other biofuels.
Doing so is not anything new for Marathon.
I think palm oil is top of the heap, but that assumes you already have an established forest of them, and of course you need a climate to grow them. Very few areas in the USA fit that!
Canada will be in good shape with their canola regions.
Here in the USA it falls back to soybeans, they dont produce a super high level of oil but they grow throughout the climate here and processors use the oil and the cake as it comes. Other higher oil crops just dont fit the wide regions of the USA very well.
Not disagreeing with you, just have to look at it practically as well.
Paul
Canada will be in good shape with their canola regions.
Here in the USA it falls back to soybeans, they dont produce a super high level of oil but they grow throughout the climate here and processors use the oil and the cake as it comes. Other higher oil crops just dont fit the wide regions of the USA very well.
Not disagreeing with you, just have to look at it practically as well.
Paul
Wow, its been since 2005 that minnesota has had at least 2% bio in the diesel. Now 5% in winter and 20% in summer, all produced in Minnesota. Longer than I thought!
I forgot, the rendering plant that was making some bio from the lard stopped doing that several years ago. It was a difficult thing for them, any change in the lard source or recycled cooking oils they were using made the end product different, it was one of those things that looked good on paper but was very expensive to make it work day in and day out to get a consistent product. They got tired of fighting with it.
Paul
man soy diesel use
I forgot, the rendering plant that was making some bio from the lard stopped doing that several years ago. It was a difficult thing for them, any change in the lard source or recycled cooking oils they were using made the end product different, it was one of those things that looked good on paper but was very expensive to make it work day in and day out to get a consistent product. They got tired of fighting with it.
Paul
man soy diesel use
grandpa Love
Well-known Member
Caterpillar guy.... Not my president? Bad news if you are an American citizen....... He is, like it or not ....
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Carbon credits are/were the government's way to encourage development of alternative "clean" sources of energy. The justification being that "big oil" has no financial reason to change the status quo otherwise.
john in la
Well-known Member
True BarnyardEnginee
But the question was why marathon is changing over. It must
be profitable for them.
Its the carbon credits that make it profitable not that making
and selling bio diesel is more profitable.
But the question was why marathon is changing over. It must
be profitable for them.
Its the carbon credits that make it profitable not that making
and selling bio diesel is more profitable.
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