buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Anyone still saving money after choosing the $13,000 diesel
option for your truck?
Also saving little to none with the residential diesel lawn and
garden equipment .
- Thread starter buickanddeere
- Start date
Anyone still saving money after choosing the $13,000 diesel
option for your truck?
Also saving little to none with the residential diesel lawn and
garden equipment .
fastfarmall
Well-known Member
My Dad had a M gas and a MD, the diesel tractor cost a lot more,[$800.00] so i doubt if it really paid off,but you couldn't run the MD out of fuel after diner,that was a plus, because we sure didn't fuel tanks in a pickup,then,maybe a 5 gallon can,with a dirty funnel,LOL.
tractorsam
Well-known Member
We hit $2.36ish a litre here today for diesel but it expected to go up another $0.17 tonight. I was thinking I should dig the Super M out to run as my economical tractor this summer
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
In my area today gas was $4 gallon,diesel $5 gallon,with tractors I'm way ahead running the diesels.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
ecause the selling price is not based on cost.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
I always heard that diesel was cheaper to make too. That's why it used to be cheaper than gas. Maybe the evil governments we have now days, force the price higher! They think they know more than us pee ons!
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
At 80K miles, my Duramax is still under warranty and barely broken in. So ask me again in a few years, when maybe my experience has been soured by an expensive out-of-warranty repair. So far, I'd say the jury is out on whether I should have bought a gasser.
Even when there wasn't a 25 percent premium on diesel fuel versus gasoline, lower fuel cost wasn't why I paid an extra ten grand for the diesel. I always figured at best I would break even on fuel cost against the cost of the diesel over the life of the vehicle. I bought the diesel because I felt it would be a better tow vehicle than a gasser, particularly out in the Rockies where non-turboed gas engines start to weeze. So far that's proven to be true; the diesel has no problem towing our fifth wheel RV, although admittedly a half-ton pickup could tow our trailer.
A fringe benefit to having a diesel when towing a big trailer is you can refuel at truck stop diesel pumps, rather than having to jockey your trailer around the crowded gasoline pumps. No, it's not worth 10K, but it's worth something.
Even when there wasn't a 25 percent premium on diesel fuel versus gasoline, lower fuel cost wasn't why I paid an extra ten grand for the diesel. I always figured at best I would break even on fuel cost against the cost of the diesel over the life of the vehicle. I bought the diesel because I felt it would be a better tow vehicle than a gasser, particularly out in the Rockies where non-turboed gas engines start to weeze. So far that's proven to be true; the diesel has no problem towing our fifth wheel RV, although admittedly a half-ton pickup could tow our trailer.
A fringe benefit to having a diesel when towing a big trailer is you can refuel at truck stop diesel pumps, rather than having to jockey your trailer around the crowded gasoline pumps. No, it's not worth 10K, but it's worth something.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Our gas is $1.89/per litre and clear diesel is $2.25/per litre. Light trucks will never save enough on fuel or last the extra time it takes to wear a diesel out at these prices. Also the cost of maintaining the DEF systems in a light truck, totally ruins any possible cost advantage. Even trucks up to 5 ton May as well be gas now. Most school buses are going gas again. The rate of fuel consumption on old gas tractors as compared to old diesel tractors was dramatic. My old diesel tractors just sip fuel and have no problem running all day doing hard work on a tank. But the old gas tractors guzzelled fuel like crazy. And no way could I take the old IH M I had to the field and do a days work on a tank of gas, it needed a noon feeding. And thats why I got rid of it !!
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
> I always thought diesel was easier to make. If so why is it more money? Stan
It's always been about supply and demand. Diesel has more energy per gallon than gasoline, so it's usually in greater demand and its price is (usually) proportionately higher. If the two fuels were priced by weight instead of volume, there would be much less price differential.
Another consideration is that refineries can crack heavier distillates to make lighter ones, but they can't un-crack lighter distillates to make heavier ones. So the more diesel fuel a refinery produces, the more gasoline it HAS TO produce.
It's always been about supply and demand. Diesel has more energy per gallon than gasoline, so it's usually in greater demand and its price is (usually) proportionately higher. If the two fuels were priced by weight instead of volume, there would be much less price differential.
Another consideration is that refineries can crack heavier distillates to make lighter ones, but they can't un-crack lighter distillates to make heavier ones. So the more diesel fuel a refinery produces, the more gasoline it HAS TO produce.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
you can have those whiny half running gas engines. I'll take my always starts no sputtering no fooling around diesel and go do the job while you screw around with wires points plugs and all that junk. If it take 45 years to replace a pump and more for injectors I'm money ahead. Since diesels have been on the yard in mid 1930's we have replaced 1 Pump and no injectors with 12 engines and one gas left I guess that pretty much explains it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
diesel was cheaper until mid 2006 when ultra low suphur fuel was mandated .
Ambulances in Ontario have gone back to gas because the diesels were failing and leaving patients on the side of the road .
The local power plant security has went to gas vehicles because the Tier IV emissions vehicles kept going into limp mode .
GM developed the 6.6 DI gas to have an alternative to Tier IV and the upcoming Tier V diesels .
Not a problem for refineries to form long chain hydrocarbons from short hydrocarbons . Just takes time and $$$.
In the 2022 light and medium duty market . The would be more DI gassers however the US is a small portion of the world market . In most of the world gasoline is luxury taxed to be more expensive than diesel . Of course everyone buys the machine that will use the cheapest fuel .
If that farmall Super M or Deere 4020 were built with Tier IV gas or the choice of Tier IV diesels . There would be gasoline market . If we could get some people to understand that diesel is not always the best every time . A lot of people like bragging that their lawn tractor etc is diesel .
Ambulances in Ontario have gone back to gas because the diesels were failing and leaving patients on the side of the road .
The local power plant security has went to gas vehicles because the Tier IV emissions vehicles kept going into limp mode .
GM developed the 6.6 DI gas to have an alternative to Tier IV and the upcoming Tier V diesels .
Not a problem for refineries to form long chain hydrocarbons from short hydrocarbons . Just takes time and $$$.
In the 2022 light and medium duty market . The would be more DI gassers however the US is a small portion of the world market . In most of the world gasoline is luxury taxed to be more expensive than diesel . Of course everyone buys the machine that will use the cheapest fuel .
If that farmall Super M or Deere 4020 were built with Tier IV gas or the choice of Tier IV diesels . There would be gasoline market . If we could get some people to understand that diesel is not always the best every time . A lot of people like bragging that their lawn tractor etc is diesel .
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
bet you're right.
At one time, for example, the 1970s, buying diesel powered cars made all the sense in the world for me. As long as they were reliable diesels and there wasn't one like that on this side of the pond. Before the gas crisis hit courtesy of the middle east cartel, I had purchased my first disel engined car and when it had just begun I bought a second just like the first one. I then had 2 diesel engined cars that got twice the mpg of my previous gassers. I had installed 2 550 gallon underground tanks and had the Coop deliver diesel fuel. I never once stood in a gas line and the fuel savings alone paid for those cars. Those days are gone. So much R&D has been done in the meantime to make gassers more efficient which was mostly caused by General Motors making diesels so unpopular with the american public. A lot of things have happened over the years and now people are looking at electric powered vehicles as the next step up. Right now, with the present state of the art, I believe 75% of our passenger vehicles in the USA could be ell electric. I'm not ready for it because I routinely make 1000 mile trips. In fact, I'm making one tomorrow. But, anyone who drives no more than 250 miles in any given day would probably be ahead with an EV.
My reference to GM diesels goes back to the infamous 5.7L cobbled together diesel that GM foisted on the american public. It never did work right and poisoned a lot of americans to the idea of owning a diesel. Entirely GMs fault. Government had nothing to do with it.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Half running , whinney , points , plugs and wires ?
Where have you been . It is 2022 not 1970 . How are those 2007 and later diesels doing ?
That was before emissions ect. I have a 2013 with a Duramax. The check engine light rarely goes out for very long, I carry a scanner with me. Right now waiting for EGT sensor that is a dealer only item so I don't go in limp mode. When everything is working it's great but..... I had an 05 and that was a much better truck.
My total weight going down the road is about 23,000 lbs towing with a 2018 Ram 2500 with a 6.4 Hemi..I usually average about 6-7 mpg..If hilly or windy I get less...The diesel Ram guys I talk to get about 9-11 mpg towing..In Sept 2019 when I bought this truck new (had sat on lot for 1 year) I could have had a diesel for $7,000 more but choose the Hemi because I only do about 3000-4000 miles towing per year...Today at the local Pilot Truck Stop diesel is $1.70 per gallon higher..
Fritz Maurer
Well-known Member
The 5.7 definitely got off to a bad start, but to make a blanket statement that they were a failure is incorrect. By 1980 they were great. The 78-79s were troublemakers, but the crate motors were covered under the warranty and those were better. Stanadyne procuring Roosa-Master was a major step forward, and shedding that miserable injector return system was a boon as well. The overall package couldnt have been that bad, they built them to at least 1984 that I know of, and built a V-6 version to put in smaller grocery-getters as well. So somebody must have been buying them. As Dean points out , in 84 the mandates required them to be smogged to death with EGR and electronic controls on the injector pump; not horsepower kings to begin with, made them even more sluggish. They went out of production for the same reason every other engine does. Technology moves on. We watched this with the Cummins HRB, to the C and J series, to the 855, then the Big Cam, on to the L-10..... all the way to today. Whatever the 5.7s shortcomings were, nobody complained about 30 mpg on a Delta 88 or a Sedan de Ville.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
> The 5.7 definitely got off to a bad start, but to make a blanket statement that they were a failure is incorrect. By 1980 they were great.
Right. The last of the 5.7 oil burners were respectable engines, but by that time the bad reputation of the earliest ones had pretty much soured the market. I know folks who bought used 5.7s for a song and drove the heck out of them.
Right. The last of the 5.7 oil burners were respectable engines, but by that time the bad reputation of the earliest ones had pretty much soured the market. I know folks who bought used 5.7s for a song and drove the heck out of them.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
walked into my local GM dealer one afternoon around 1980 and the first four bays had a Cadillac diesel, a Chevy C-10 diesel, an Olds diesel, and a Chevette diesel. All had the hoods off and the engine disassembled. Once people found out about the reliability issues, you couldn't give them things away. They were great on fuel because they sat in the driveway 24 hours a day.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
the 350 Olds diesel was built for the last year or two of production. the way the engineers wanted to, without being over ruled by the bean counters.
By then however the reputation was ruined .
By then however the reputation was ruined .
Dean: That was the worst fuel crisis in our history. Diesel engines of that day were inherently more efficient than gasoline engines. We were ready for diesel engines. That's why General Motors tried to introduce one. If they had been successful and had produced good efficient reliable diesel engines we would be seeing diesels all around us today. They destroyed the diesel engine in the minds of many american car buyers for all time.
Along with the comments to this subject, if I remember correctly, GM was replacing diesel engines with gassers in some/certain instances and per one Olds owner who got a Chevy V8 replacement in his Olds, he wasn't the least bit happy and made the local news. I remember going to the dealers when they first came out to examine the diesel. Nothing to see. Same with the S10. Couldn't wait for that to come out and going to see the first ones, noting to see.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I just got my last new truck bought in Feb. It's a 2022 Ram 3500. I debated about the Diesel option. The upcharge for diesel in this package actually came in at $9600 extra.
So, I did the calcs on the payback period for D engine over gas. As I ran the numbers on calc, I had to mess with the time value of money, as Ram wanted their $9600 right up front today, and I am spending X dollars per year on fuel. Inflation makes a big difference in payback.
I gave each truck a 20 year lifespan, and basically unlimited mileage allowance as gas engines these days will go 300k miles pretty easily, if maintained. The payback period for the up-front $9600 price came out to 13 years, and 8 months with a fairly abundant time value of money. With a conservative time value in the equation the payback was over 18 years. I did include the price of DEF with the Diesel.
So, to own the diesel would payoff between the 13 and 18th year of operation. If we split the difference, it would pay off in 15.5 years. I chose the gas engine. The new gas engine has cyl deactivation and the MPG when not towing is fairly decent. However, I do tow a lot, so very infrequent to have the cyl shutdown oprerating(that little green 'eco' lamp on dash!).
So, I did the calcs on the payback period for D engine over gas. As I ran the numbers on calc, I had to mess with the time value of money, as Ram wanted their $9600 right up front today, and I am spending X dollars per year on fuel. Inflation makes a big difference in payback.
I gave each truck a 20 year lifespan, and basically unlimited mileage allowance as gas engines these days will go 300k miles pretty easily, if maintained. The payback period for the up-front $9600 price came out to 13 years, and 8 months with a fairly abundant time value of money. With a conservative time value in the equation the payback was over 18 years. I did include the price of DEF with the Diesel.
So, to own the diesel would payoff between the 13 and 18th year of operation. If we split the difference, it would pay off in 15.5 years. I chose the gas engine. The new gas engine has cyl deactivation and the MPG when not towing is fairly decent. However, I do tow a lot, so very infrequent to have the cyl shutdown oprerating(that little green 'eco' lamp on dash!).
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