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Connecting Rod Bolt

R

RyanKve

Member
I have a frozen Farmall H and I posted a discussion a few weeks ago. Everyone recommended to unbolt the connecting rods and spin the crank out of the way, then beat the pistons down with hammer and wooden block.

Pistons 2 and 3 are almost all the way down, I was able to remove their bolts easily. 1 and 4 are almost top dead center and I am struggling to find a way to remove the bolt. There is maybe 3/4 inch or 1 inch gap between the bolt head and the block.

Will it be possible to remove these bolts? I dont think I can get any of my wrenches in there with the angle. Does anyone know of any tricks or special tools? Every idea helps!

If anyone would like a picture to better explain it, just ask and Ill get one as soon as possible.

This post was edited by RyanKve on 04/22/2022 at 09:38 am.
 
Why beat the pistons down. Drive them up if not stuck and remove them. Then work on those that are stuck.

They all will have to come out the top unless you remove the crank (I think).
 
I will agree with Roger.If you get the piston down to where the rings are exposed it will not go back up. You may be unable to go through the bottom with the crank in the way. Stan
 
I'd think the crank would be the problem (in the way front and back of the bolts) at 12 o'clock (TDC), not the block. If so, you should be able to use an extension, to get your ratchet out from inside the
crank. This may require just the right length of extension, and/or perhaps a swivel.

If I remember right, the block is an issue at 9 o'clock (manifold side of block). If that is the case, you'll likely have to take block out of the tractor, turn it over, parsholey lift crank out of the block, maneuvering the bolts away from the side of the block.

I am also thinking, the pistons can come down SOME once rod is removed from crank, (but not out). The crank is in the way for piston to come out the bottom. Of course, if the crank is removed, they could come out that way. This is why the rod caps are bolted on to the rods at 45 degrees (in case you were wondering). So the rod can fit through the sleeve, and piston and rod can be taken out together from the top.
 
I'm guessing 1 and 4, are the ones that are froze. If both are froze, well ... , you know how hard it is to just get one piston unfroze. If both are froze, disconnecting them from crank is a must, in order to work on them independently to get them free. If both are froze, and still connected to the crank, it's near impossible to free both up at the same time.

Of course, I can't answer this for him. I am just guessing that is what he's got going on.
 
Use ridge reamer to remove out the top. . If you dont have one ,they can be rented .Will need to remove ridge of carbon and metal at top of cylinders . They can then come out the top with hammer and hard wood driver .pack the cylinders with paper towels to catch the chips ,chips lock the pistons to sleeve if not removed . Use vacuum to clear out the chip ,rust and dust in cylinders .
If you decide you can use Emory cloth to remove rust from sleeves for aid to remove , will have to vacuum out rust dust . Can use the brake clean to remove the oils use to soak the cylinders sleeves .
Dont know if this helps ,not sure whats best for you .
If the two close to top you can remove nut from one rod cap and crank up to get access to other cotter pin and nut.
What I suggest, hope it helps
 
Cylinders 2 and 3 had water in them when I got it. The guy said that it had been sitting for 3-4 years.. 1 and 4 also look a little rough around the piston walls that I can see.
 
Why not up? Under the tractor the rod is at an angle. When I hit it with a wooden block, I feel that I am just wedging the wood between the rod and the side if the piston.

Should I get a really thin piece of wood? Is it fine to lodge the wood against the side if the piston? Would I also have to knock the rod off of the crank?
 
Is an H a sleeved engine? If so, a radical idea.
Destroy the two stuck pistons. Drill and chisel the pistons to pieces. Dont damage the rods. With the pistons out of the way. The crank should turn with only the rod and wrist pin in the bore. You can then remove the other two rods and pistons. May have to remove ring ridge first.
 
I have had the tractor for near a month and the motor is still frozen tight. I figured I'd try to progress by seeing if I can beat the pistons free, since soaking it hasn't worked for me.
 
First off, if you are intending to save this thing and get it running again, STOP, back up, and take it easy, I've never "heard" the word "BEAT" some many times in regard to trying to save/repair something!

What, exactly, are you trying to do, do you have the engine out of the tractor and torn down to the point the crankshaft can be removed?

If so, AND you can get the rod cap bolts ALL out and caps off you can remove the crankshaft, then deal with each stuck piston individually.

Remember that the rod and main caps need to be marked (if they aren't already) so they can be put back EXACTLY as they were.

If NOT, for every piston you BEAT on, anther one has to go down, as well, and two have to go up, doesn't work real well and puts a lot of stress on parts not made to be treated like that!

I HAVE done as Jim suggested and drilled holes in stuck pistons to the point they are in pieces and can be removed, at this point the engine needs new pistons and sleeves, so nothing is lost by doing that.

Once you DO get it apart, install the rod caps correctly and take the rods to an automotive machine shop and have them professionally check for "straightness" and "twist", have the "big end "sized" and new bushings fitted in the "small" ends and resized to fit the wrist pins in your new pistons.

The crank should be checked out, as well.

Nothing worse than doing a partial job and buying $$$ parts only to have the job fail.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, it is a dry sleeve engine, dry sleeve means the sleeves press in the block in a dry ..hole.. called a parent bore in the block. Relieving the pressure by drilling around the outer edge of the piston as you spoke of has been a recommended approach to removing stuck very tightly stuck pistons. Remember the wrist pin for the top of the connecting rod is oriented front to back so drilling more on the sides is an ideal approach.
 
You're going to have to take the block out of the tractor, turn it over, unbolt the main bearing caps, partially lift the crank out so you can get at those bolts, and remove the crank, as recommended earlier.

The pistons won't come out the bottom without removing the crank anyway, and the crank won't come out of the block in the tractor.
 

Nothing wrong with taking the engine apart and having a shop push the pistons down with a press.
In fact may as well toss the dry sleeves and run oversize pistons directly on the block.
 
I am trying to unsieze the motor to my Farmall H. I still have
the motor on the tractor with each cylinder soaking. At the
moment they are soaking in diesel fuel. I have tried
aerokroil, good ol wd-40, Pd blaster (the good older stuff
with acetone), ATF & Acteone 50/50, and brake fluid.

I have the oil pan off and cylinder 2 and 3 rod caps as well.



I am trying to save as much of everything as I can, but still
get it done correctly.
 
The ones at bottom I would work them loose then with them removed then work the other 2 loose so you can turn them down part way at least to unbolt the rods. one way would e to with a wood block put a plate over it to fit the head bolts and tighten them down to put tension on the pistons and squirt some diesel fuel in the cylinder. Let set over night. In the morning look at the cylinder it might have moved some or might have emptied out from the fuel. Either way you can now tighten the bolts some more if they are not as tight as the night before. Take sledge hammer and tap the plate with it. Don't have to hit hard since you have pressure on the pistons already. Will probably need this a few times as it works loose. Once losse turn down so you can get to bolts. Much easier on the engine block and parts. And less likely to damage the crank or rods.
 
IHC has the rods connection at an angle so the bolts don't stick straight down like a car engine in the cylinder. The reason ha can't get to the rod bolts very well. Also the reason I would push the 2 pistons at the bottom out the top then try to get the top one loose as described in previous reply. Minimal pounding and pressure added downward to the top pistons. As for the bottom ones I would just put a longer stick under the piston and use a jack to lift slightly then with a block on top of the block drive it down with a sledge hammer. Heavy hammer don't have to be swung hard to get more done with less pounding hard.
 
Would it be okay to wedge the block in between the side if the piston and the rod? Should I have the rod off the the crank, or is just unbolted fine. More than one piston are frozen.. almost definitely.
 
(quoted from post at 14:08:12 04/22/22) Would it be okay to wedge the block in between the side if the piston and the rod? Should I have the rod off the the crank, or is just unbolted fine. More than one piston are frozen.. almost definitely.
Click to expand...


You have passed the point of doing the job with the engine still attached to the transmission. Unbolt it and get it on your shop bench. Better yet an engine stand. They are cheap.
 
You have passed the point of doing the job with the engine still attached to the transmission. Unbolt it and get it on your shop bench. Better yet an engine stand. They are cheap.
Click to expand...

My only fear is if I unbolt it from the tractor, wont the motor try to fall every time I apply force? Like when I turn it over at the flywheel on the tractor, it isnt going anywhere. But if I have the motor on the bench and try to turn it, im just going to roll the motor over.

Im not at all against unbolting it from the tractor if I have to. My buddy has an engine stand and a hydraulic lift.

This post was edited by RyanKve on 04/22/2022 at 08:31 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 20:29:55 04/22/22)
You have passed the point of doing the job with the engine still attached to the transmission. Unbolt it and get it on your shop bench. Better yet an engine stand. They are cheap.
Click to expand...

My only fear is if I unbolt it from the tractor, wont the motor try to fall every time I apply force? Like when I turn it over at the flywheel on the tractor, it isnt going anywhere. But if I have the motor on the bench and try to turn it, im just going to roll the motor over.

Im not at all against unbolting it from the tractor if I have to. My buddy has an engine stand and a hydraulic lift.

This post was edited by RyanKve on 04/22/2022 at 08:31 pm.
Click to expand...


as others have posted, due to how badly rusted your H is your weapon to break the pistons loose is force straight up or down. the rotational work comes once they are broken loose.
 
SOMETIMES, if engine crankshaft is
sitting JUST RIGHT in a frozen engine,
disconnecting ALL the rod caps,
requires crankshaft removal during the
process.

Once crank shaft is removed from the
crankcase, there will be no need to
turn or rotate anything!! Other than
maybe turning the block upside down,
or right side up.

If you are concerned about applying
down ward force with it bolted to an
engine stand, then don't bolt it to an
engine stand. Set it down on the floor
(on top of wood blocks).

I know you are not wanting to remove
the engine from the tractor. I
wouldn't want to go to that extreme
either, to get pistons free. But, if
you got multiple pistons froze up and
can't get them unbolted from the
crankshaft, it's about your only
ANSWER in accomplishing what you want
to do. To get the crank shaft removed,
and pistons free/out.

You are highly UN-LIKELY to get two
froze pistons unstuck, while still
being bolted to the crank. Un-bolting
them from crank, requires removing the
crank if you can't otherwise get them
unbolted. Removing crank, requires
removing engine from tractor.

Sometimes to accomplish A, you got to
move on to B and C to accomplish it.
What you are trying to do, is an
example of that.

For what it's worth, maybe this
project ended up being more than what
you wanted to take on. But, it kind of
is, what it is.
 
I just replied to your last post,
perhaps while you were posting this
one. Read it, if you haven't already

The block itself being on the bench is
not going to help you. Getting block
out of the tractor, allows you to
remove the crankshaft. Removing the
crankshaft, is what you are NEEDING to
do. That will help you. And your NOT
going to accomplish that with engine
bolted to clutch housing (block still
in the tractor). And your not going to
get the rods unbolted (apparently),
with crankshaft still in the engine.
Those are going to have to be unbolted
as you are taking the crank out, and
manuvering it, so you can get it
unbolted from the rods of the 2 froze
pistons.

Once engine is out, and crank is out,
the froze pistons will now be unbolted
from crank. And you can work on
(bashing them out) independently, with
out them being bolted to the crank,
and connected to each other. As you
are trying to do now, with crank in
engine, engine in tractor, and
everything all bolted together.

Think of it as taking a completed
puzzle apart. Your not going to get
this puzzle apart, by simply taking
apart the outer edge.

Your advantage is NOT putting it on
the bench. Your advantage is getting
the crank out, and frozen rods
UNBOLTED from it!!!!!


I'm getting the feeling that you bit
off more than you can chew, and you
don't have much internal engine
experience. If this is the case, you
might want to pull in somebody that
can help you in person. You might need
more help, than just some online tips
over the internet. Don't take this the
wrong way. But when dealing with
frozen engines, one wrong wack with
the hammer, and you can do way more
damage than good. Lack of experience
can cause more harm, than good. If you
start breaking things, or damaging
parts so they can't be used again,
then thats what's going on. Just
trying to warm ya, before it happens.
 
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