Oil changes and warranty

MarkB_MI · Jan 28, 2022

I think everyone agrees oil changes need to be done at least as often as the manufacturer's recommendation. But will the manufacturer refuse to honor their warranty if you don't? Apparently yes, according to the article below. It doesn't say that failure to do oil changes on schedule was the proximate cause of the engine failure at 91,000 km, although it's certainly implied.

The owner apparently relied on advice from an oil change shop that told him he could go 24,000 km between oil changes rather than the OEM-specified 16,000 km. I wonder if they also sold him oil that didn't meet the manufacturer's specs.

The moral of the story is that with modern electronic engine controls that send info back to the manufacturer, you best not cheat on oil changes.
Ram refuses warranty engine replacement due to poor maintenance

plowhand · Jan 28, 2022

It's got me thinking I better do some checking on my Ram that I have oil changes done by Valvoline instant oil change..The dealer told me I just needed receipts to honor my lifetime power train warranty..

Geo-TH,In · Jan 28, 2022

Monthly, Onstar sends me an email.
% of oil life is part of the email.
I'm a believer in letting the dealer change my oil while under warranty, including my Kubota.
One time I got an email, the check engine light came on just after I bought the car.
The problem was the water pump bearing was making a rattle the ultrasonic engine sensor picked up.

I'm happy Onstar is watching my cars' sensors.

Tony in SD · Jan 28, 2022

All my servicing was done by a Ford dealer. My engine was overhauled at near 100,000 miles by a local Ford dealer. Then it quit 2000 miles later leaving me stranded in Nashville. One of the Ford dealers in the Nashville area overhauled it again under a Ford program that guarantees Ford shop work. That Ford shop wanted my service records. I told them they were in the glove compartment. It must have proved that I did service my truck regularly an the engine failure was not caused by my neglect. I didnt have to pay anything.

Hobo,NC · Jan 28, 2022

Another oil change issue.

https://setexasrecord.com/stories/6...y-put-wrong-oil-in-truck-caused-engine-damage

it was discovered the wrong oil had been used in the truck. I would like to know the particulars on that. I have been there on transmissions and such they listed it on the repair order and bragged they were saving the customer money. Changing the fluid resolved the issue (lucky for the other shop) What I don't understand is put the correct factory recommended fluid in it add your mark up and move on with life. Everyone is happy : )

A customer is questing me now she said you recommend a service at 6K my service display at 6K reads the oil life is at 50%. I pulled up the message its 20% not 50... Why would you give the manufacture a OUT at least wait till its out of warranty and play with your own money.

I can tell ya from 6K @50% down the oil depletes faster it does not mean you have 6K oil life left.

This post was edited by Hobo,NC on 01/28/2022 at 07:07 am.

rustred · Jan 28, 2022

i have never had an oil change by a dealer yet ,... and have bought quite a few new vehicles, actually 6 i believe. and the last one o6 gmc duramax and have 445,000 k on it. plus been using castrol oil in them all . the kid bought a fairly new dodge 1/2 ton diesel and just after warrantee was up the diesel engine siezed up. cost him around 10,000 to get a used engine put in it. i razz him all the time about dodges. and now he came and got my old 89 dodge fam truck to use cause his wont start. i asked him if he wants me to haul it to the auto wreckers ,lol. the only reason i have a dodge is because it was my uncles truck and i even drove it home for him when it was new in 89. when i was working the company had dodges and found out it was the most expensive truck for upkeep. them things were always going in the shop. front ends , diff's, trans,.

Russ from MN · Jan 28, 2022

When we bought our Subaru in MN I told the salesperson that I did my own oil changes, he said that's OK, just use the recommended oil and genuine Subaru filters. Then I had it changed at a Subaru dealer here in AZ, and they used some other brand of filter that I've never heard of, and I could tell they didn't torque the lug nuts after rotating the tires. I will never go back to that dealer again, and I told them so.

Goose · Jan 28, 2022

When I was Ford Service Manager here in Nebraska, we had an F150 pickup with South Carolina plates towed in with the engine seized. It showed 29,000 miles on the odometer.

We ran it up on a hoist and pulled the drain plug on the oil pan. Nothing came out, not one drop. We then noticed it had the original gray factory oil filter still on it. I asked the fellow who was driving it when was the last time the oil was checked or changed. He replied, 'I never bother with stuff like that'.

Before I got too far into it, I called the Ford District Manager for advice. She cancelled the power train warranty on the engine on the spot.

We parked the thing back outside, and a day or two later a tow truck from a smaller Ford dealer 25 miles away picked it up. I probably should have alerted them, but I got busy and spaced it off. I always hoped they didn't get stuck for the price of an engine.

MarkB_MI · Jan 28, 2022

> I'm happy Onstar is watching my cars' sensors.

Most folks would say Big Brother is looking over your shoulder, but the Onstar reports give you evidence that you've performed the required oil changes. Or at least that you pushed the reset button.

dhermesc · Jan 28, 2022

If you do your own oil changes you need to document the changes in the manual AND keep your receipts - even that wasn't enough for Dodge back in the 2000s when they had so many issues with the 2.7 V6 engine. The did everything they could to keep from covering those engines. Thousands of Intrepids, LHs, 300Ms and Concordes were junked when only 5-6 years old because of those engines. The demand for replacements drove the price on rebuilt 2.7s to over $4000 making the cost of replacement about $6000. You didn't dare buy a used 2.7 because you could have a failure 10 miles down the road.

Dodge even rejected warranties on cars their dealerships serviced if they were not done regularly on the extreme duty schedule. Apparently every car driven in North America should have been on the extreme duty schedule.

ss55 · Jan 28, 2022

I suspect the excuse of an oil change shop told him it was OK is made up.

1206SWMO · Jan 28, 2022

Any vehicle under factory warranty goes to the dealer for a oil change at 5000 miles....After they go out of warranty I change the oil myself..

Geo-TH,In · Jan 28, 2022

The dealer has a record of my oil changes.
I have too much to lose by not having my car and tractor serviced by a dealer.

SDE · Jan 28, 2022

A used car lot dealer told me that the variable valve timing (VVT) engines need clean oil to maintain longevity. He recommended buying the best filter also.

Stephen Newell · Jan 28, 2022

You couldn't really expect a manufacture to warranty an engine that was abused. Not getting timely oil changes I would consider abuse.

Dean · Jan 28, 2022

Few if any shops properly torque lug nuts.

Torque sticks don't count.

Dean

4520BW · Jan 28, 2022

On star must send the report to the dealer cause we get an e mail.from the dealer. I got 5 free oil changes with my new truck. All our vehicles under warranty go to the dealer. GM even had the best tire price around.

Tracy Brown · Jan 28, 2022

dhermesc · Jan 28, 2022

The used car dealer is correct. VVT requires clean oil to work correctly and all use the motor oil for hydraulic pressure on the chain tensioners. If the chain tensioners can't maintain correct tension the chains start to slap and cause excessive wear to the chain and sprockets. If the engine has an internal water pump driven by the timing chain clean oil becomes even more important as the sprocket on the water pump isn't as durable as the sprockets and shafts on the cam shafts and the crank shaft.

INCase · Jan 28, 2022

yeah. extreme duty changes and full synthetic was your only chance to get 2.7 to last. there are some that did. some went way over 200,000 but the majority had trouble in the 60 to 110,000 range.

the 3.2, 3.5 and 4.0 engines they used were very good engines if you changed the timing belt before 150,000. I had a couple in the 240-300,000 range.

4play · Jan 29, 2022

This could end up in court if pressed hard enough. It'll be the big dog corporate law firm's against a little guy with hometown attorney. Anyway I would think his only lasting argument would be getting a oil analysis done, if lucky it might present that the oil is still fine or still has plenty of life.

I would think there should be burden of proof on the manufacturers end to prove the oil was either too low, inadequate or the cause of the failure. There are plenty of oils superior to OEM specs, and can exceed manufacturers change intervals. So, the failure was due to lack of an oil change? OK, prove it.

jimg.allentown · Jan 29, 2022

As I understood Ford's warranty policy, a dealer had to get prior approval for a major repair to be covered under warranty. In most cases (at least at the dealers I worked for) that entailed a visit from the factory rep and some diagnostic work to determine the cause of the failure.

jimg.allentown · Jan 29, 2022

That is because using a torque wrench on wheel lugs takes time, and most dealership mechanics are working flat rate. I could open a whole discussion as to why flat rate is a bad deal for everybody involved except the dealership owner.

Uncle murph · Jan 29, 2022

Warranty or no warranty,why would you take the advice of some guy?over the recommendations of the engineers who actually designed and built the vehicle.Its just Darwin except now the vehicle is the victim.

showcrop · Jan 30, 2022

I don't believe the article. I think that the author purposely left out the part that after the failure inspection revealed the exact cause of the failure. We know that there are telltale signs that tell exactly why certain failures take place, and I believe that many of these are widely enough accepted to stand up in court. Fiat, after getting the information just went back and checked the service record in order to corroborate what their analysis told them.

MarkB_MI · Jan 30, 2022

> I don't believe the article. I think that the author purposely left out the part that after the failure inspection revealed the exact cause of the failure.

There are a number of suspicious details in the article. And of course it's told entirely from the perspective of the owner; we don't know what Stellantis would have to say about it. Engines don't seize up at less than 60K miles just because the owner missed a couple of oil changes. The dealer probably told the owner the warranty claim was denied because of the oil change history, which they could probably document, but I suspect there was other evidence of abuse or neglect.

One thing that raises my suspicions is the owner's claim that he's going to scrap the pickup rather than pay 19K CAD (USD $15K) for a new engine. I ran that truck through KBB.com and came up with a trade-in value of around $30K US. If he's really scrapping it, it must be beat to heck.

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