Group of us old dumb Tennessee country boys have breakfast ever morning and the two day topic of discussion has been the I 95 freeze down. I can understand a big storm and the road being blocked. Clearing the road would be the state responsibility here but where were the first responders. Here folks would never sit in cars 24/30 hrs with no food and water. there is enough john deer gators and rtvs to get stuff in there. I don,t buy it was a remote area they have not seen remote till you see the mountains of east Tennessee. Just appears the response was way too slow, hope someone familiar with the situation up there comments.
- Thread starter jm.
- Start date
db4600
Well-known Member
I skated up and down I-94 in central Minnesota for 5 days last week. It wasnt until Friday p.m. until the sand and chemical cleared the road surface of Mondays rain between sub zero, snow, and wind. Lots of cars in the ditch, but nobody stranded. I wonder if Virginia has the equipment, method, or foresite? Apparently in this case they did not. Makes one wonder if there are a few retired fellas who used to do such things shaking their heads. This is not a first for Virginia. My daughter moved to Fredricksberg in October and she was surprised by the unfamiliarity of snow for those out there. She is currently sitting without power.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I've been up in the great smoky area of TN many times on the logging roads and one can really get into the middle of no where in those mountains. Live in Athens TN for 3 or 4 years
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
jm,
One news story this morning showed jackknifed semis in the middle of the mess and no exits close by to get on or off I95 for help to arrive.
One story said they got 3 to 4 inches of snow per hour.
Another story said they couldn't pre-treat because the rain would wash it off.
I can tell you one time I was on I 70 and got caught in a blizzard. I 70 became pot hole city. Snow got packed in my cars and semi's and no way for snow plows to get the hard pack off the road.
I took to an exit and hopped on US 40 that paralleled I70. The road had little traffic and was clear sailing back to Terre Haute. The road crew didn't have packed snow to deal with.
Around Terre Haute, snow crews are pretreating before it snows and plows are running when the snow begins. Too late to remove snow if you wait for the snow to stop.
So no pretreating because it was raining. Too much snow too fast is another reason. Too much traffic that packed the snow and couldn't remove it.
I'm lucky to have a county commissioner living on the same road.
1.25 miles to main road 63 and 63 is one of the roads that gets pretreated and plows are going by my house before it starts snowing.
One news story this morning showed jackknifed semis in the middle of the mess and no exits close by to get on or off I95 for help to arrive.
One story said they got 3 to 4 inches of snow per hour.
Another story said they couldn't pre-treat because the rain would wash it off.
I can tell you one time I was on I 70 and got caught in a blizzard. I 70 became pot hole city. Snow got packed in my cars and semi's and no way for snow plows to get the hard pack off the road.
I took to an exit and hopped on US 40 that paralleled I70. The road had little traffic and was clear sailing back to Terre Haute. The road crew didn't have packed snow to deal with.
Around Terre Haute, snow crews are pretreating before it snows and plows are running when the snow begins. Too late to remove snow if you wait for the snow to stop.
So no pretreating because it was raining. Too much snow too fast is another reason. Too much traffic that packed the snow and couldn't remove it.
I'm lucky to have a county commissioner living on the same road.
1.25 miles to main road 63 and 63 is one of the roads that gets pretreated and plows are going by my house before it starts snowing.
I can understand the road getting blocked, the ice and snow all that the part I just cannot understand is someone sitting in a car 24+ hrs with no food or water in that part of the country. Had to be some first responders that had something that would carry food and water down the edge of the road, snowmobiles jeeps, rtv farm tractors something. yes 4 or 5 hrs maybe but at some point someone should have stepped up total break down./ There are 4 wheel clubs around here that one call and in 2 hours I grantee could mobilize 50 jeeps or volunteers .
partsman1055
Member
This happened in a part of Virginia that gives the rest of the state a black eye. Would not have happened in southwest Virginia!
A similar thing happened on I78 back when Ed Rendell was the governor of PA. The snowstorm was predicted to start with 6-8 inches of snow and then end with several hours of sleet/freezing rain. Someone had the bright idea for the snowplows to raise their plows about 4-6 inches off of the road when plowing. They thought that leaving a layer of snow on the road would allow the sleet/freezing rain to accumulate into the remaining snow and the plows could then drop down to the road and plow it all off. The problem is they forgot to account for traffic driving on the snow they didn't plow and packing it into a hard base. The sleet/freezing rain came, then temperatures dropped to well below freezing and the whole mess froze rock solid and couldn't be plowed. Interstate 78 was a parking lot with miles and miles of trucks and cars that couldn't move. Roads that could be traveled had potholed hard snow packed in so bad that you could only go about 25 on them. The state spent about 2-3 weeks getting it scraped off the roads. Rendell finally took all responsibility for the fiasco. This event was the end of his political career.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
here are 4 wheel clubs around here that one call and in 2 hours I grantee could mobilize 50 jeeps or volunteers .
Part of the problem is many rely on the government for help.
When volunteers can do a better job.
Hope everyone remembers the mistakes made and they don't happen again. Not very likely to happen.
Part of the problem is many rely on the government for help.
When volunteers can do a better job.
Hope everyone remembers the mistakes made and they don't happen again. Not very likely to happen.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
That assumes there is an edge of the road to get down. Usually what happens in these situations is people get stupid, start driving around the stuck cars, and get stuck themselves on the shoulders and breakdown lanes. Pretty soon every inch of the road from ditch to ditch is clogged with vehicles.
40 miles of road plugged with thousands of cars per news reports.
You're saying they should have been prepared for this. How can first responders possibly be prepared for this level of stupidity?
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Yup, and when they pretreat people whine and complain to their representatives that it's rotting out their vehicles.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
You are 100% correct there. Taxpayers will be up in arms.
The types of people you need on the payroll to respond to this kind of crisis don't grow on trees. It's not like you can hire them seasonally. You need to keep that kind of personnel on the payroll year round, to sit around and do nothing, for that one day every few years where they MIGHT be needed.
db4600
Well-known Member
I skated up and down I-94 in central Minnesota for 5 days last week. It wasnt until Friday p.m. until the sand and chemical cleared the road surface of Mondays rain between sub zero, snow, and wind. Lots of cars in the ditch, but nobody stranded. I wonder if Virginia has the equipment, method, or foresite? Apparently in this case they did not. Makes one wonder if there are a few retired fellas who used to do such things shaking their heads. This is not a first for Virginia. My daughter moved to Fredricksberg in October and she was surprised by the unfamiliarity of snow for those out there. She is currently sitting without power.
John in Mich
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ypsilanti, Michigan
Stupid occurs at all levels of responsibilities and occupations, government and private sector.
In 1978, a winter snowstorm inhibited almost 50% of employees making it to work at GM Hydra-Matic, Willow Run. There was no department not affected.
The Division General Manager was approached to close the plant and let everyone go home before the storm got worse. NO! We are open for business! Stupid, stupid, stupid! (I won't talk about the machining junk that was made)
At the time, I lived 6 miles south of Willow Run. I did not have a 4x4 vehicle. It took me 5 hours to find a route open enough to get home. My normal drive time, in rush hour, was 15-20 minutes. I vowed that during any future such storm, I would be absent!
I retired in 2007, never having to be absent for a storm.
In 1978, a winter snowstorm inhibited almost 50% of employees making it to work at GM Hydra-Matic, Willow Run. There was no department not affected.
The Division General Manager was approached to close the plant and let everyone go home before the storm got worse. NO! We are open for business! Stupid, stupid, stupid! (I won't talk about the machining junk that was made)
At the time, I lived 6 miles south of Willow Run. I did not have a 4x4 vehicle. It took me 5 hours to find a route open enough to get home. My normal drive time, in rush hour, was 15-20 minutes. I vowed that during any future such storm, I would be absent!
I retired in 2007, never having to be absent for a storm.
The past several years VDOT has treated roads with a liquid brine prior to the storm and have been very successful removing snow with this pre-treatment. But this snow
fall was preceded by rain, which washes the pretreatment away. Further, the forecast Sat was 1 to 3 inches, Sunday it changed to 4 to 7 inches north and west of Richmond.
Fredericksburg, where the backup happened, got 14 inches in places. With the forecast changing as it was, my opinion is the Governor should have mobilized more resources,
just in case what happened happened. The snow was wet and heavy and brought down numerous pine and cedar trees. Most rural roads where I live have had the trees cleared
by chainsaw toting locals, and plowing done by Farmers with tractors. VDOT will get to it eventually. Also many have been without power for three days, the utilites
should have been better prepared as well.
fall was preceded by rain, which washes the pretreatment away. Further, the forecast Sat was 1 to 3 inches, Sunday it changed to 4 to 7 inches north and west of Richmond.
Fredericksburg, where the backup happened, got 14 inches in places. With the forecast changing as it was, my opinion is the Governor should have mobilized more resources,
just in case what happened happened. The snow was wet and heavy and brought down numerous pine and cedar trees. Most rural roads where I live have had the trees cleared
by chainsaw toting locals, and plowing done by Farmers with tractors. VDOT will get to it eventually. Also many have been without power for three days, the utilites
should have been better prepared as well.
john in la
Well-known Member
One thing I have noticed after beating this topic to death on Tales yesterday and this discussion today.
Sure seems the attitude has changed now that the shoe is on the other foot.
Sure seems the attitude has changed now that the shoe is on the other foot.
Kaiser-Frazer bought the plant after the war. In 1953 the GM transmission plant in Livonia caught fire and burned to the ground, the most destructive industrial fire ever. GM needed a new facility ASAP and bought the Willow Run plant and was manufacturing Hydramatics nine weeks later.
BillL
showcrop
Well-known Member
jm. the problem was not that the area is remote. The jeeps and ATVs can't knock down trees or traverse steep side hills. Just look at pictures and videos. The breakdown lanes were blocked every 100 yards, both left and right guard rail to guard rail. No possible way for any wheeled or even tracked vehicle to get through. Any effort like you suggest would have just added to the problem and slowed the clearing out.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Again, what good are all the capable vehicles in the world when the roads are clogged ditch to ditch for miles on end and there is no way to even drive down the side?
Should they have just called Bob Chandler and got the Bigfoot fleet in and drove over the tops of the cars? Crush the people inside, that way they won't need food or water.
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Fredricksburg is about 40 miles south of DC . It was in an urban area . By Quantico.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
About 1993 Kentucky had the same problem with snow and no equipment to remove it. I saw all sorts of stupid things happening. Including a dozer pulling the front of a grader down the interstate to plow snow with. They got about a foot that storm. I was stuck at the Renfro Valley exit for a day or 2.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
I sat in the middle of traffic on I-80 about 93or 94 around the 100or 200 mile marker in PA for something I never found out overnight one time. During a snow storm.
that is exactly what the INDOT dummies have done here the last few years.
they must have a new edict that they cannot plow when people are out driving so they wait until evening or the middle of the night AFTER the snow is packed into 2-4 inches of solid ice that they cannot plow or get enough salt do put a dent in.
last year they did better but we also didn't have a ton of snow either. not much this year.. so far. maybe 4 inches total. don't need this 5degree stuff. liked the 50's we had over Christmas time.
I grew up in Delaware with parents being from NE Ohio and Western PA. the locals would run to the store and cancel school on a snow prediction and they no snow. My folks just drove thru it like they always did in Ohio and PA.
they must have a new edict that they cannot plow when people are out driving so they wait until evening or the middle of the night AFTER the snow is packed into 2-4 inches of solid ice that they cannot plow or get enough salt do put a dent in.
last year they did better but we also didn't have a ton of snow either. not much this year.. so far. maybe 4 inches total. don't need this 5degree stuff. liked the 50's we had over Christmas time.
I grew up in Delaware with parents being from NE Ohio and Western PA. the locals would run to the store and cancel school on a snow prediction and they no snow. My folks just drove thru it like they always did in Ohio and PA.
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