I was wondering if it is possible to use the small pump from a splitter for remote hydraulics? It would be belt driven off the front of my Massey 65. It is set up now to use the internal pump but it is slow as all get out and having the levers between my knees is a pain. Fabbing up mounts etc. is not an issue for me nor building a tank, I do custom fab work for a living. Also, would a single stage or 2 stage be better?
- Thread starter M4gery
- Start date
redforlife
Well-known Member
Some old (pre-historic now, LOL) loaders had thier own independent hydraulic system. They ran off of thier own pump hooked up to pto shaft. I've always thought about using one of those hydraulic systems for additional, or auxillary hydraulics. You'd have the pump, tank, valving, and perhaps cylinders to work with to convert/make something up.
Note- (most of those antique loaders had one way cylinders and valving). But on the plus side, all those old loaders go to the junk man for iron price. Espeacially thosr old wrap around tractor style farmhands.
Note- (most of those antique loaders had one way cylinders and valving). But on the plus side, all those old loaders go to the junk man for iron price. Espeacially thosr old wrap around tractor style farmhands.
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
A wood splitter pump intended to couple straight on to a shaft may not last long with the side loading of a belt. Belt driven pumps generally have heavier bearings to handle the side load. Be sure you get a pump built to be belt driven. Single stage 2000 to 2200 max psi should be fine for remotes, no need for 3000 psi developed by the second stage of most.
To me, best would be a front mounted, crank driven pump, as used by a loader.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Also small engines directly coupled to a woodsplitter pump run at a higher rpm than tractor engines.
I thought about using a front mount pump (actually have one off a ford backhoe) but the rad sits below the centerline of the crank pulley so that is a no go. maybe if I build the mounting bracket with a
support for the pump shaft? Thank you all for the info gives me some thing to work with.
support for the pump shaft? Thank you all for the info gives me some thing to work with.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Not Sure about the side load of a belt, and a belt is going to get a real workout driving a hyd pump if it is getting worked hard.
Hydraulics are unforgiving for miscalculations. Do your math first, study the pump output and needed RPM, figure that in with the power needed and the speed desired. It gets complicated, but a lot easier to change on paper than after it's bought and assembled!
Hydraulics are unforgiving for miscalculations. Do your math first, study the pump output and needed RPM, figure that in with the power needed and the speed desired. It gets complicated, but a lot easier to change on paper than after it's bought and assembled!
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
Also unless you have at least one (two would be better) driven sheave for just the hydraulic pump it will slip. Trying to run the pump on the same belt as the generator/alternator and fan will only bring you grief, affecting charging and cooling as well as the hydraulics, in my opinion. I expect you want to be able to use your PTO as well as the remotes so a PTO pump isn't the answer either.
As for the side load on a direct couple pump; I know of a small skidder that had an engine transplant and a wood splitter pump was used to replace the original engine driven pump as the donor didn't have a cost effective way to drive it. After several relatively short run time replacements due to shaft end bearing failures in wood splitter pumps; a pump designed to be belt driven was installed and has been running for several years now.
As for the side load on a direct couple pump; I know of a small skidder that had an engine transplant and a wood splitter pump was used to replace the original engine driven pump as the donor didn't have a cost effective way to drive it. After several relatively short run time replacements due to shaft end bearing failures in wood splitter pumps; a pump designed to be belt driven was installed and has been running for several years now.
Brendon-KS
Well-known Member
- Location
- Goessel, KS
A two-stage pump is used for log splitters so a small engine with limited power can move a cylinder quickly when unloaded but be able to trade that speed for pressure when required (just like downshifting a transmission on a steep hill). With the tractor engine driving the pump you've got far more available power so a two stage pump is not only unnecessary but could seriously limit the performance of the system.
As mentioned, side-load of pump input shaft would be an issue, 2 stage pump would work against you as in slower cycle times under load. If you want to do some adaptating , I would start with a power steering pump , if you got one off an old medium duty truck you would have a good start , but you may need additional reservoir capacity depending on your needs.
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
No need for a 2 stage pump when you have that much HP to drive it. As said earlier I would not side load a pump shaft if I had any other option. My splitter pump is belt driven but there is a jack shaft with two bearings taking the belt side load and a lovejoy coupling to drive the pump.
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
I would not say your pump is belt driven by the definition of a belt drive. Belt driven means a belt(s) drives a pulley(s)/sheave(s) mounted directly on the shaft. Being connected to the jack shaft with a Lovejoy coupling makes it shaft driven, is not belt driven. Using a jackshaft to take the sideload, then couple the pump to the jackshaft, is the right way for a pump not designed/built for being belt driven. The jackshaft arrangement allows for speed adjustment up or down, remote mounting, and being able to use multi belt drives that might not fit on the pump shaft; among other things.
I can make a mount that supports the shaft at both ends taking care of the side load issue. This pump will go in the place of the alt. as I have no need for it, no lights or other power users so the battery just has to start it. I am mounting a battery charger permanently on the tractor to plug in when not in use. I never operate it long enough for the alt. to do anything lol. I live in south east Kentucky and I have to shut it down when I get off of it or it will roll away lol. Yes the brakes need work but right know I don't have the means of getting the axle housings off to work on them. I wonder if they make a double groove crank pulley for these old tractors or will I need to make one?
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
From experience with the skidder I mentioned, I think you will have a problem with belt slippage if you use the belt for the water pump/fan as the alternator does. If you require good pressure it will likely be to much for that one belt and severe tightening may lead to water pump bearing failure. The pump on the skidder is a single dedicated belt, with about 180 degrees of wrap, and will slip if not real tight. An alternator does not get that much wrap on the fan belt and the smaller the pulley (you will want smaller than the crank pulley) to get the pump rpms up, the less belt contact area. Just my thoughts.
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