Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Came across these photos today. Thought some of you might enjoy them - as I did.
- Thread starter Ultradog MN
- Start date
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
My dad was on a sea tug during the war. Told me they were hideing. Be hind one of them. When they fired the big guns. Got too close and got rammed. No one was hurt but they learned to stay away from them.
Hockeygoon
Member
The ship does not move sideways when the main battery goes off. That turbulence is from muzzle blasts and the massive shells passing over.
To get an idea of how massive the muzzle blast is - the USS Lexington and Saratoga were aircraft carriers armed with 8 guns to fight off enemy cruisers. They could not aim to the port side of the ship because their muzzle blast would tear up the flight deck making it unusable. That was with 8 guns that fired a round that weighed 335 pounds, the 16 guns on the Iowa shoot a 2700 pound projectile.
To get an idea of how massive the muzzle blast is - the USS Lexington and Saratoga were aircraft carriers armed with 8 guns to fight off enemy cruisers. They could not aim to the port side of the ship because their muzzle blast would tear up the flight deck making it unusable. That was with 8 guns that fired a round that weighed 335 pounds, the 16 guns on the Iowa shoot a 2700 pound projectile.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
My father would disagree with you.
farmallsandcoops
Member
and the Iowa is on display at Long Beach. And if you are from Iowa, you can tour for free. Haven't done so but neighbor did a few years ago.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Is it still in active service?? I know the USS Missouri is
zuhnc
Member
- Location
- Macks Creek, MO
USS Wisconsin is in Norfolk, VA, at the Nauticus center.
Pete in MD
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Maryland
None of the 4 Iowa Class battleships are in Active service.
They were all stricken from the Naval Vessel Registry and are now museum ships.
They were all stricken from the Naval Vessel Registry and are now museum ships.
Kansasredneck
Member
There are a whole collection of videos at the Battleship New Jersey YouTube channel that provide lots of info on these amazing ships.
OP
OP
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Hockeygoon,
I agree. It is turbulance from the muzzleblast. The notion that the kick from a full broadside would push the ship sideways has been discussed ad infinitum and pretty well debunked.
I agree. It is turbulance from the muzzleblast. The notion that the kick from a full broadside would push the ship sideways has been discussed ad infinitum and pretty well debunked.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
In 1989, an explosion in one of the Iowa's gun turret killed 47 sailors.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
Thanks UD. Awesome pic.
steve in ok
Member
- Location
- central Oklahoma
The Missouri is on display at Pearl Harbor right next to the Arizona. Well worth the trip to see those two pieces of history
larry zielkowski
Well-known Member
Nice pictures thanks for posting. A few years ago did a tour and a sleepover on the New Jersey slept in the real bunks drank coffee on the mess deck, to bad no one brought a deck of cards. My only disappointment was they didn't allow visits to the engine room
Kansasredneck
Member
Here is a good link with math on the subject of the battle wagons moving sideways.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.php
A snip from the article.Let us think for a moment about what would happen if a battleship actually moved 30 feet (~10 m) when she fires a broadside. For the 16/50 guns on the Iowa class, when the guns are fired with full charges at a +15 degree elevation, recoil lasts 0.43 seconds and counter recoil (runout) lasts 0.90 seconds. This means that if the ship actually moved 30 feet, then it would have do this in the half a second that the guns are recoiling as all force pushing the ship ends when the guns reach their recoil limits. Now, think of what would happen to the gun crew should this occur. The ship moves 30 feet in half a second, but, due to inertia, the gunners do not move from where they were in regards to the earth's surface prior to the instant before the guns fired. In other words, to an observer securely fastened to the gunhouse deck, it would appear that the gun crew suddenly moved in the opposite direction from where the guns were pointing and were thrown violently into the front of the gunhouse. Similarly, any crewmen on the weather deck would suddenly move 30 feet towards the firing side of the ship or, worse, be tossed overboard. Likewise, any loose equipment on the ship would also move 30 feet. However, none of this actually happens.
I hope this helps everyone understand about battleships firing.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.php
A snip from the article.Let us think for a moment about what would happen if a battleship actually moved 30 feet (~10 m) when she fires a broadside. For the 16/50 guns on the Iowa class, when the guns are fired with full charges at a +15 degree elevation, recoil lasts 0.43 seconds and counter recoil (runout) lasts 0.90 seconds. This means that if the ship actually moved 30 feet, then it would have do this in the half a second that the guns are recoiling as all force pushing the ship ends when the guns reach their recoil limits. Now, think of what would happen to the gun crew should this occur. The ship moves 30 feet in half a second, but, due to inertia, the gunners do not move from where they were in regards to the earth's surface prior to the instant before the guns fired. In other words, to an observer securely fastened to the gunhouse deck, it would appear that the gun crew suddenly moved in the opposite direction from where the guns were pointing and were thrown violently into the front of the gunhouse. Similarly, any crewmen on the weather deck would suddenly move 30 feet towards the firing side of the ship or, worse, be tossed overboard. Likewise, any loose equipment on the ship would also move 30 feet. However, none of this actually happens.
I hope this helps everyone understand about battleships firing.
Kansasredneck
Member
Agreed, a 2700# projectile vs a 57,000 ton ship plus the water that would need to be displaced.
If you put your hand in a tub of water and shove violently sideways, you create a pretty good wave in front of your hand. That is never present in the photos.
If you put your hand in a tub of water and shove violently sideways, you create a pretty good wave in front of your hand. That is never present in the photos.
Thanks. The Battleship Texas was in my hood while growing up. Visited it many times. On a trip to Mobile, Alabama once I
detoured and went aboard the Battleship Alabama. Being an Iowa class rather than a Dreadnaught class it was quite the feeling to
stand on her decks. I imagine serving on her was something of an experience.
detoured and went aboard the Battleship Alabama. Being an Iowa class rather than a Dreadnaught class it was quite the feeling to
stand on her decks. I imagine serving on her was something of an experience.
Well I see we have conflicting statements. Surely the correct answer is out there somewhere. On the weight comparison, its not the 2700# its 9x2700 plus the effect of the propulsive blast of the bags of gun powder going off. If it was the shock wave from the sound eminating from the barrels, I would think the lines of force would be in an arc with the tip of the barrel as the focal point, not straight lines moving away from the hull.
In closer evaluation of the bow wake there does seem to be some swirl around the bow. The other thing is that the bow has 6 firing and stern 3, doubling the force and noticing that the bow wake and attitude of the ship supports ships wake from increased bow thrusting, not acoustic disturbance....my 2c.
In closer evaluation of the bow wake there does seem to be some swirl around the bow. The other thing is that the bow has 6 firing and stern 3, doubling the force and noticing that the bow wake and attitude of the ship supports ships wake from increased bow thrusting, not acoustic disturbance....my 2c.
Blackhole49
Well-known Member
- Location
- White Lake MI
Just exactly how do you know that?
Do you hear Johnny Horton? As a teenager, I read many C. S. Forester books. Including most of the
Horatio Hornblower stories. It was broadcast on radio as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Ufc2hI4FM
Sink the Bismarck
Horatio Hornblower stories. It was broadcast on radio as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Ufc2hI4FM
Sink the Bismarck
Steven Allen
Member
Per Garzke, William H.; Dulin, Robert O., Jr. (1995). Battleships: United States Battleships 19351992 (Rev. and updated ed.). Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 978-0870210990. OCLC 29387525, Metacentric height of the Iowa-class is 9.26 feet, which makes for a pretty stable platform.
This post was edited by Steven Allen on 08/31/2021 at 08:42 am.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
All I can say. He was there I was not.
We toured the Wisconsin down at the Nauticus Center in Norfolk a few years ago. I remember being told on that tour that they didn't fire all 9 guns toward the same side at the same time because it would roll the ship too much. Don't know if that was true or not, but that is what the tour guide said.
This post was edited by DRussell on 08/31/2021 at 09:25 am.
This post was edited by DRussell on 08/31/2021 at 09:25 am.
Kansasredneck
Member
I've been around tanks, and after watching an M-551 Sheridan fire, I would think that the ship would indeed move a bunch. I got schooled on that several years ago.
I've no doubt they collided, I'm thinking that the battle wagon made a course change.
I've no doubt they collided, I'm thinking that the battle wagon made a course change.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Just calculate the energy from the weight and velocity
Of the projectile and powder .
Now figure how far that energy
Will move the weight of the ship with water resistance .
Skyhighballoon(MO)
Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, MO
I took my two oldest to the USS Alabama one of the times we were in Gulf Shores and it was very impressive. The Alabama is a South Dakota class battleship that preceded the Iowa class with sister ships South Dakota, Indiana and Massachusetts. They look very similar to the Iowa class but smaller being designed originally to meet the 35K ton limit of the post WWI naval treaty.
OP
OP
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
This is just an off the top of my head swag
comparison.
Take a 30-06 and place the butt against the
bumper of a 1/2 ton pickup and pull the
trigger. You would feel the thump if you
were inside but it isn't going to push the
pickup any where. Iowa class had 9 16in.
guns. So put 9 30-06s against the bumper
and pull all the triggers at the same time.
It still won't push the pickup - which is
on wheels and rolls easily.
With a 55 THOUSAND TON battleship, add the
weight of the water that must also move to
shift the ship sideways.
I say the the ship doesn't move sideways
more than an inch.
comparison.
Take a 30-06 and place the butt against the
bumper of a 1/2 ton pickup and pull the
trigger. You would feel the thump if you
were inside but it isn't going to push the
pickup any where. Iowa class had 9 16in.
guns. So put 9 30-06s against the bumper
and pull all the triggers at the same time.
It still won't push the pickup - which is
on wheels and rolls easily.
With a 55 THOUSAND TON battleship, add the
weight of the water that must also move to
shift the ship sideways.
I say the the ship doesn't move sideways
more than an inch.
The ships neither move nor roll when firing a broadside. http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.php
I do not know about a Battleship movung when firing a broadside but I know a Gearing Class Destroyer will shale pretty good when the shock wave from an atomic explosion seventeen miles away gets there. I got to see several of them as part of Operation Dominic in 1962.
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