Worst ever 2?

How about worst ever Farmall or International? My dad told me about the F 12 my grandfather bought. Dad and his brothers called it The gutless wonder.

the one I heard anything about was the 4and 560's mostly the 560 would take out the rearend bearings. Was about the beginning of the horse power race on tractors and the M rearend would not take the extra of the engine. I would guess by now most either had the bearings changed under the solution or are just putter tractors now so doesn't matter if they are done or not. My 806 is just a putter tractor on some places.

154 although more of a lawnmower than a tractor.

The difficulty here is not that they had one standout rotten egg, but that individual things in a model were underwhelming across the whole production. From very noticeable things like final drive bearings (as caterpillar guy points out) to the adoption of early wishful thinking expander disk brakes into the Letter series, to poor ergonomics on the standard configuration tractors, poor utility steering, easily boiled fuel, failure to license a good hitch design (fast hitch), teledepth components that were easily trashed, or failed from exposure, early draft control that didn't do much, all the way to the V-8 that just didn't fill its own hype, each of these were sore spots that had to be coped with, and were. The very popularity of IH equipment indicates they had competitive products and pricing. The big failure was failed management/leadership/engineering at the end of the 15XX day in the sun. Jim

I had an early 706 diesel that made me want to put a gun in my mouth. Only tractor I ever owned that was worse than that 3010 diesel. TA went out, then it got so it hesitated in direct drive or whatever they called it. I'd be running the round baler, let out the clutch after I spit out a bale, it'd hesitate, then the front tires would come about two feet off the ground. Didn't do it all the time, that's why it was so dangerous. Hardest starting diesel ever. I'd have to plug it in, then jump it for 10 minutes to start it. I finally cracked a sleeve by using too much ether and a piston slapped through the block. I sold it to Honest John Stamm for parts. That's when I bought the new 4040 Deere.

When they switched to red paint they went down hill.

The ones painted RED!!---Tee

Our 400 and 2-pr

Green chopping for the Holsteins
Happy day-- Got rid of that head cracking tractor

I had fantastic use out of my Black Strpe IH 966, hood power, started really good, good power steering and brakes. Down side was clumsy awkward non synchronized transmission, TA didnt make up for lack of syncro. And a truly uncomfortable tractor to ride with the seat position over/behind the rear axle. Good tractor to drive to the field, put into gear, and pull all day. Not handy to have on a loader or hauling loads down the road. A real live gate relationship for sure

Never owned one, but have had a few people tell the H was a gutless wonder in the field.
My Grandpa had a 656 G Hydro....he hated it. You had to have the motor wound up before it would do much of anything.
A horse would outpull an F12. First tractor my Great Grandpa owned was an F12...he said it was slightly better than a horse.

To me, the biggest black eye for IH was rushing the 60 series to market without adequate testing. So many farmers went to John Deere and never returned. Another issue was the 86 series. The 88's were on the board and had they released the 88's in 1976 instead of the 86 series, things may have been different.

I guess my dad had an F12, way before my time, in the 30's? He said he called it an F nothing! It was gone before I came along.

This is the second time I had to type a response for this thread!!!!! The 1468, 4586, and 4786 were really not that good as everyday production tractors. The V8 tractors that stuck around or came in from the Mid West all had Cat, Cummins, and even a Deutz engine stuck in them. The 4386 was not much better as the 466 engine was overmatched in a 4 wheel drive application. For all the tongues hanging out over 1206's today it sure did not seem that way when they were an everyday work tractor. Part of the problem was it was too much power for a 2 wheel drive tractor and few came with a MFWD option.

IH was not extremely competitive on equipment prices. Three of the region's biggest IH dealers carried New Holland. I was told by one salesman that NH had better pricing to the dealers which they could pass onto the customers. Another large IH dealer double up by carrying Hesston, Deutz, Wilrich, Steiger, Versatile, and Kinze. On average IH was 1.15 to 1.2 times the price of NH. What IH did well was having a very group of dealers that supported products well. Further, IH did improve its product line on average from 1965 to 1980. In some cases such as with the 56 blower they were the leader.

I think that the H takes too much grief. Yes, 95 percent of the time they could not take off in 5 gear from a stand still but they did what they were meant to do in terms of pulling or powering equipment. Then came the C and Super C which did almost as much as an H but at less cost to purchase and operate. That was the start of analyzing the H as a big little tractor or a little big tractor implying it was not properly designed in terms of engine power.

As much as I love IH row crops from 1963 to 1981 yours is a very fair assessment. I love my 986 but can't imagine having to use it with a loader. I would even say that a 4XXX JD has better steering based on having planted with both an IH and a JD.

Dad had an F12 I don't remember him him say anything about it being under powered. Dad used it to cultivate, beans, cut beans, and cut hay. Then bring the shocks of hay to the stationery bailer. He got it sometime in the 40's, used it into the 60's. It was very dependable, just had a hard time starting. It is still parked where he last parked it with the mower attached, the last time he cut hay. I am going to get it running sometime. Stan

NY 986 - At least IH never stooped so low as to put a Detroit Diesel in anything they built, except it was an option in their Pay Hauler off-road dump trucks and available in most of their bigger truck models along with CAT and Cummins. Like their first big 4wd, the 4300, the DT-817 6 cyl diesel was a really good engine. I agree that IH tried to do too much with the DT-466, they needed a newer version of a 650-750 cid engine for the biggest combines, big 4wd tractors, and since engines and bull dozers were built in the same plant, just different sides of the aisle, the construction group could have used the BIG engine they never built. They did build a DT-530, and punched it out to 570, but still too small. A BIG CAT or Cummins should have been put in the 4586 & 4786, and the DT-466 tried REALLY hard but was too small, stressed too hard in the 4386. The DV-800 was probably a better truck engine than tractor engine. It's actually surprising how many big 4wd's were built with a 903 Cummins. I put around HALF a Million miles on semi-tractors ordered out by Deere's captive contract carrier, They were not that bad of engine, burned a lot of fuel, I would have liked at least a ten-speed behind it, the 6-speed Spicer had some BIG gaps.
I'm amazed at the hate for the 460/560, and what kind of Hot-Rod Dumb skull ran them that destroyed the rearends? Neighbor across the road farmed 320 acres with JUST a 560 gas, his only other tractors was a Farmall Cub and two 8N fords, only thing the 560 didn't do was wear a 2M-H picker every fall picking/shelling corn. He used an IH 203 combine. He did buy a W-9 to ease the workload and get things done more timely.
Dad's '63 4010-D only farmed 200 acres, and any day I was able to run that danged thing back to the house was a good day. It was amazing how many times we had to stop plowing, planting, cultivating, combining, and work on that stinking tractor. Most of the 4020's in the neighborhood were decent tractors, but we had the ONLY 4010. The original owner took the leaf spring out of the injection pump, tried grinding the ends to STIFFEN the spring so it made more HP. What a moron! He ground the ends different lengths, it ran wide open on 3 cylinders, and about half-throttle on the other 3, would have dyno'd about 65-70 hp, if our dealers ACE diesel tech would have dyno'd it. Dad had a real pump expert make a house call one evening. It was making 100-105 hp, until it blew the headgasket about 50-60 hours later, most were jobs a FARMALL H or M could have done. The engine got a major overhaul that winter.

Dad used a F-20 for many years, without much complaint. I did same with 101 combine & still like & use our SMTA regularly....still got a sore behind from discing with Model 37 behind the SMTA a few days ago!

Oh you knew John Stamm did ya . . Hummmmmmmm wonder if that was one of them 706 i ended up with ??????? I knew him , saw him atleast twice a month .

454 International.

I asked John one time if the air worked on a White that he had there on the lot. He yelled 'H8ll no, open a window!'.

I don't think that 706 that I sold him went anywhere but out back. The engine was totally shot and the whole tractor was in pieces when it went out of here.

I like IH, my first car was a 1970 Scout 800A.

In the present, I wouldnt mind having a 966 or 866 for our haying. Two things come to mind of benefit are, one - a nice spread of ground speeds with the TA and second is just shear parts availability and internet (vs dealer) support.

However, when you look back, its hard to conclude IH stumbled in so many ways - it was inevitable they would fail.

60 series rear ends. In my own 756, what a joke of a gas engine on the C291. Gas hog and good luck getting your regular mechanic to rebuild with the pressed sleeves.

The 66 series. No coolant treatment standard? What were they thanking? Inexcusable IH didnt have a power shift like Deere and a decent cab.

86 series. Again, no power shift like Deere - why? A cab with doors hinged wrong, terrible ergonomics with the LH shifters and good luck seeing the drawbar with the forward setting cab/seat.

The big strike should have never happened and on and on and on.

I just read where Navistar was bought by VWs truck group and have been delisted. The IH and NAV ticker are gone.

Again - I like IHs tractors and would not mind having a 966 or 886 on our farm, we could get along fine with one of them.

There is a reason(s) IH failed and Deere did not - and they both went through the same 80s farm crisis.

Long live the great IH memories and the tractors and equipment still on the farm and in the field!

All the farm equipment companies stubbed their toes as they went through the 1970's trying to wring every little bit of HP out of existing engine designs as much as possible. But it is fair to note that IH had its share of failings just like JD and AC and Ford and etc. That using a V8 diesel successfully in a piece of farm equipment was more the exception than the rule.


I have never been a strong critic of the 560. My biggest criticism of the 560 was it was very unremarkable when the 1960's started. Further, that IH missed the signal for 80 plus HP row crops that JD, Case, and Oliver saw.


Used tractors can be problematic. Especially ones that go through consignment auctions. You got burned because of the people involved with YOUR 4010 versus general design issues. My dad got burned far worse by a brand that ultimately became a part of AGCO. I could tell you incident after incident with that tractor but long ago it became obvious to just let the dust settle on the whole episode. It was just making for a lot of bad blood even though my father was in the right the whole time owning that tractor was playing out. It was best for everybody involved to just move on so to speak.

I'll yet again make the point that JD had a very strong credit division. It made a huge difference in terms of offering new credit contracts or restructuring old ones. I
have heard many times where a farmer had a non-JD product bought but then the financing never materialized. Then that same farmer went to the JD dealer and had a
comparable piece of equipment bought and financed all in the same day.

Borrowed from another site.

I think IHs biggest downfall was thier success. They were #1 in sales into the 60s. Thier attitude seemed to be - We will build it, and they will buy it.

Deere stuck with the obsolete horizontal two cylinder design for far too long. I like my two bangers, but they were at thier limit 20 years before US production ended. When they finally dumped it for the New Generation, IH stuck with thier attitude. Unwittingly slipping behind. Turns out customers will not necessarily buy it just cause IH built it. I think that IH slipped bad with the 4/560, but could have recovered. What really sunk them was putting the 86 series against the 4_30 series, then the 4_40 series.

I grew up driving a 1086. Dad still has it. What an awful setup. That cab was designed by buffoons. You know you screwed up when you mount a mirror on the ceiling in order to help hitching equipment. Might as well drag the fuel hose thru the cab to fill it up. Hope you are limber enough to climb the ladder and not get your foot smashed on the last step as the wrong-way door comes slamming shut behind you. Never mind the wrong side UNSYNCHRONIZED shifters! Neighbor long said that the 1086 sold far more 4440s than any Deere dealer sales pitch ever did. Farmer would test drive a 1086 in the morning and sign papers on a 4440 in the afternoon. The sound-gard cab surely has its limitations, but it was the best thing going in the 70s.


You can make any excuse you want, but the 86 series cab is what sunk IH.

The 2 cylinders were the single most profitable product in the JD system when they were being built. This allowed JD to build up the rest of the company including
financing/credit that most companies could not match. I still remember the hysteria in 1986 when it was revealed that Ford was buying New Holland with Ford's poor
attitude towards financing farm equipment.

Everybody made blunders in terms of product lines and I don't think IH was sunk because of the 86 series. During the late 1970's IH was a strong number 2 in the 100
and up HP row crop tractor market. JD commanded 40 percent of that market while IH had 33 percent. The 1979 strike followed by the twin disasters of the grain
embargo and heavy truck recession cooked IH's goose. Some contend that if IH could build at 1978 levels during the early 1980's that IH could have staved off disaster.
But the reality was with the downturn that extra production had no place to go except sit at the Farmall plant waiting for a dealer to sit on some tractor for a couple of
years.

We had a pos 560 on the dairy who ever thought up the controls on that should of been shot couldnt get on it couldnt get off was on its third head when it got sold

What ?!! Nobody mentions the 2+2's or 4166 ? Both had similar problems,namely a 400 series engine that could be turned
up way past driveline limits. Trying to wrap my head around a 466 IH being overmatched in a 4WD. Deere's 4WD tractors with that size engine suffer
little criticism. Many things killed off IH, bad luck not being a small one. Deere survived on the early bird gets the worm BUT the second
mouse gets the cheese.

Yes, the 4166 was one sorry tractor. More than a few sitting behind shops or barns not running back in the day.

The problem with the worst ever question is 90% of its personal feeling and the other 10% is hand me down stories that got passed on from someones cousins uncles brothers mother transvestite horse shoe relative . Some tractors may not be quite as good as another or this or that but to ask a question like that youll get well I had one it was the biggest pos ever made . Well thats funny because I had one that I farmed 900 acres with for the last 50 years only thing Ive ever done was change the oil still on the original tank of gas

They were that way in 1936 and they're still that way. Neighbor went looking for a new tractor in 1936. Bank turned him down for a loan. Depression times, he was only 28 years old, etc. He went over to John Deere and they signed him right up for a loan and brought out a brand new Model A with a 2-14 trailer plow. Took his old Fordson with 2 bottom Oliver plow as a down payment. It didn't cost him a penny to get into the John Deere club. He kept on buying new John Deere products for the rest of his farming life. I know of one CaseIH/Kubota dealer where they require a $300 application fee to finance something. I went to John Deere and the dealer noted that I wanted to pay cash for a new tractor. (I thought I'd get a better deal by paying cash) He told me I'd get an additional $4000 off if I financed it. No financing fee. So, I financed it and then paid it off right away. I needed a combine in a hurry. Went to John Deere one afternoon, bought and financed and they brought the combine out the next morning. I don,t know of any other company that can do that.