- Thread starter SVcummins
- Start date
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Well that is stretching it some!! Maybe inter molecular bonds have taken a set between the elastomeric compounds and the structural tensor/vectors of the fiber components. Jim
Eric in IL
Well-known Member
Farmer B doesn't take the belt off. It removes itself when it breaks. Therefore he doesn't have a clue about situation No. 1.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I remember back when radial tires came out that if you switched them side to side it could cause a problem with them and they did in fact go bad. But that was back in when they first came out and where not steel cord but fiber glass cord
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I dealt with it a number of times back then. I worked part time at a gas station that did tires on the side and we learned fast to rotate tires front to back but NEVER side to side unless you dismounted them and turned the 180 out from where they had been
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
The tension in a belt doesn't change direction when you reverse its rotation. For every pound of force pulling it in the clockwise direction, there's a pound of force pulling in the counter-clockwise direction.
To give another example, in a tug-of-war, what direction is the tension in the rope? In BOTH DIRECTIONS!
To give another example, in a tug-of-war, what direction is the tension in the rope? In BOTH DIRECTIONS!
As a lay person (NO belt design education or experience) it looks to me like any stretching/pulling is in BOTH directions.. HOWEVER I don't know anything about 'molecular structure' or other physics or mechanics regarding V belts. Any actual professional V belt designers or experts on here who can educate us ????????? As typical someone can post an article or paper or URL link off the internet here claiming one thing while someone else can post one SAYING JUST THE OPPOSITE. Choose whichever article/opinion/expert you like or even what someone posts here ........
Yall be safe be happy be kind to one another here. G _ _ Bless America, keep her free strong and great is my wish
Best wishes
John T
Yall be safe be happy be kind to one another here. G _ _ Bless America, keep her free strong and great is my wish
Best wishes
John T
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
How about a yes, no, maybe sorta? Lol
Actually a v belt or anything else that moves will wear a little different on each side. The longer it stays the more it wears. It's just natural forces at work. With enough age on it of course it will wear more on the opposite side if reversed. Thus it will appear stretched and possibly try to jump off until it wears back to where it was. Even metal gears do the same thing. Actually changing at a molecular level I'm not so sure about.
Actually a v belt or anything else that moves will wear a little different on each side. The longer it stays the more it wears. It's just natural forces at work. With enough age on it of course it will wear more on the opposite side if reversed. Thus it will appear stretched and possibly try to jump off until it wears back to where it was. Even metal gears do the same thing. Actually changing at a molecular level I'm not so sure about.
50+ years ago back when belt technology was what it was, I was taught that you install the belt such that the rolling direction is aligned with the outer wrap direction to ensure that the outer wrap doesn't start unravelling. But today, you have a hard time finding where the wrap finished.
On today's belts, I just bought a 1/2 x 90+ inch drive belt for a big box riding lawn mower. Kevlar cord...... $13.
On today's belts, I just bought a 1/2 x 90+ inch drive belt for a big box riding lawn mower. Kevlar cord...... $13.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I'd think if the the belts were pretty well stressed and were under constant load it would make a difference.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
On the tire deal I call BS What direction did the used tire or the recap turn before you got it? I have run a lot of caps with good results and never had one go bad because it was run opposite direction that I know of. Most either got damaged somehow or wore out. As for a belt that might be in one that has several different twist turns and such like the belt on a Wilmar spinner belt. those don't last to long and only can be gotten from the dealer. I tried a few places to get it elsewhere and the dealer was nnot bad at about 25-30.00 for it.
Bob N.Y.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Norway, N.Y.
I had a 2005 Ford Escape that came with 5 matching tires and wheels. The owner's manual showed a 5 wheel rotation pattern. Using that rotation, all of the tires would be run on both sides of the vehicle eventually. They were radial tires and none of them failed.
Im thinking that if a belt was able to alter its molecular structure, it would morph into a entirely new entity and no longer be a belt!
Perhaps this bit of advice is a relic from a different era, like the old saws about not leaving batteries on concrete or changing the rotation of tires. Maybe with earlier materials used in natural rubber or first-generation synthetic products it was an issue, but I doubt modern compounds give a hoot which way they spin. Think about a modern serpentine belt that passes over and under drive and idler pulleys. Some of those pulleys will turn in one direction and others will rotate in the opposite direction imparting alternating friction loads on the belt as it contacts them. Which load does the belt prefer? Do the belt's molecules switch back and forth, increasing their transformation rate as RPMs increase or does the back-and-forth pressures cancel the whole process out?
That said, I do remember a certain infamous belt from my childhood, that when removed, that could quickly alter my behavior- almost down to the molecular level..
Perhaps this bit of advice is a relic from a different era, like the old saws about not leaving batteries on concrete or changing the rotation of tires. Maybe with earlier materials used in natural rubber or first-generation synthetic products it was an issue, but I doubt modern compounds give a hoot which way they spin. Think about a modern serpentine belt that passes over and under drive and idler pulleys. Some of those pulleys will turn in one direction and others will rotate in the opposite direction imparting alternating friction loads on the belt as it contacts them. Which load does the belt prefer? Do the belt's molecules switch back and forth, increasing their transformation rate as RPMs increase or does the back-and-forth pressures cancel the whole process out?
That said, I do remember a certain infamous belt from my childhood, that when removed, that could quickly alter my behavior- almost down to the molecular level..
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
When a statement or answer starts talking about molecular structure, it would have to refer to some scientific experiment or study which has shown/proved that to be the case. When Joe Blow starts talking about molecular structure it's just idle chatter and not much else ..... in my opinion.
Timmycornpicker
Member
- Location
- Almost Pennsylvania, New Jersey.
put the straw chopper on the combine in the fall for soybeans, put on the v-belt. take the straw chopper off next summer for wheat straw to bale, take off the v-belt. repeat yearly.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
You need to rethink things. I am talking about when radials first came out and where fiber glass belted not steel belted like they are now days. Back then it did make a difference as to which way they had been run and if you turned them so as to run backwards of what they had been run they would in fact go bad but that was back in the late 60s or early 70s
Steve in VA
Well-known Member
- Location
- Natural Bridge Virginia
Just my view, but, this sounds to me like this is an incorrect assumption that rubber belts are akin to rubber tires. When first introduced, the rotational pattern of radials was different from bias ply. While that was due to the tread design/pattern, some ascribed it to the tire composition. This sounds like that to me.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Steve ..... isn't it the orientation of the 'belts' in a tire that make radials different than bias ply?
jon f mn
Well-known Member
When they cap them they grind off all the tread first. It's the tread that does it. And I've had plenty of tires start to cup and you can rotate them or turn them in any way you want, but they will still continue to cup and wear fast til they are done. If there was no such thing as taking a set as I said then if you moved the tire from steer to drive they would stop cupping or change the way they do it. But they never do. Once they start a wear pattern it is set for the life of the tread.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
I bought a new set of tires recently and on one side of the tire It said outside. I've never seen that before. These were cheap tires and they have a lot more mash than the old tires.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
I think the thought of tires, especially radials must always rotate one way is a myth.
The forces on the tread versus carcus and belts, etc. is equal between acceleration and deceleration.
Therefore it does not matter which side the tires were placed or how many times they moved to the other side.
I can imagine the fibers holding the vbelt shape could orient somewhat to resist the stretching due to traction at the surface.
Flipping belt over would maybe cause the fibers to then migrate in the opposite direction.
The result being the fibers have migrated twice as far from their original position.
The forces on the tread versus carcus and belts, etc. is equal between acceleration and deceleration.
Therefore it does not matter which side the tires were placed or how many times they moved to the other side.
I can imagine the fibers holding the vbelt shape could orient somewhat to resist the stretching due to traction at the surface.
Flipping belt over would maybe cause the fibers to then migrate in the opposite direction.
The result being the fibers have migrated twice as far from their original position.
or 'non-directional' tires, the direction of rotation does not matter, radial or biased & most are 'non-directional',& fine to change direction at time of rotation, but.....and there are always the exceptions to every generality. There are "directional" tires & with those, it does matter. One example are studded winter tires....and there are others, too.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
True that. There are also tires that are to be only placed on the left or right. Usually a high performance rain tire.
My post was about internal tire materials and construction "movement" of those materials.
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