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Allis WD vs Moline ZBU

G

GMDieselman1950

New User
So Im looking at whats the better option. This tractor will be used for raking hay, and running a small square baler. Looking at narrow front Allis Chalmers WD or Minneapolis-Moline ZBU. Both are very similar in power output and both have a live PTO option. What are the pros and cons of each? Im not interested in any other brands or models. I narrowed my choices down to these two and need some final advice/opinions on which is the better choice. Thanks
 
Far more parts available for the Allis which would be a big concern for a working tractor. The ZBU is intriguing but I am not sure how many parts fit over from a Z or ZA
not that either are just laying around waiting to be parted out.
 
I really like ZB's But it's a WD 45 hands
down. Their oil hand clutch will out bale
anything but a newer hydro tractor. You
can run a gear faster than you should and
just feather the hand clutch. Both pto's
are 650 rpm or so. Can just run tractor
3/4 throttle or so. A 45 has a constant
mesh transmissiokon. Shifts a little better
on the go. And their are at least 5 times
more WC / WD / WD 45/ D17/ 170/ 175's out there
all motors interchange. Kinda like small
block Chevys.
 
If you drive them both, you will see that the ZBU steers easier and actually has brakes that will
stop the tractor. Those two things can't be truthfully said for the WD.
 
I have a MM ZBU and have driven and maintained an AC WD. The ZBU is a much better ride, but the governor is less responsive than the WD. I hated the WD with narrow front. Bad ride and uncomfortable sitting position (Do you have a long left leg and a short right leg and a long left arm to reach the shift? Neither the WD nor the ZB came with factory 3 pt, but many people installed aftermarket 3 pt on both. The ZB is a heavier tractor. The hydraulics on the WD fit better with today's equipment. Aftermarket parts are much more available for the WD. The factory built the ZB with a 12 volt electrical system, some WDs have been converted to 12V, and some have just installed an 8 V battery to make up for the tired 6 V system. The ZB runs 13.6 X 38 rear tires while the WD uses smaller diameter 28 rear tires.

There are many more WDs available, so used parts are not too hard to find. But as a tractor, I sure like the ZB much better. Either way, you'll have to be the mechanic.

Good Luck with your decision.


Paul in MN
 

I've never driven a ZB, but I have two UB's. I'm sure it would be similar.

The only bad thing about the WD is that they're hard to get on and off of, and awkward to sit on when you're on it. Plus, on the hand clutch, you're reaching forward with your right hand to pull it while at the same time trying to look over your right shoulder to watch the baler. That gets a little awkward sometimes and hard on the neck. But power wise, it's more than adequate. We had a WD-45 when I was growing up and I baled a lot of hay with it.
 
Just bought a nice WD I'm 69 and don't have any more problems getting off/on a WD than any other old tractor,grew up on a WD45 so I'd take the WD.Nothing wrong with the MM either just what you like the best.
 
Just because I find these questions interesting, I looked up the WD and WD 45 on tractordata, and I gotta ask: what's tractor fuel? The engine for tractor fuel has less compression than for gas or propane, so it's probably less octane, but I've never heard of "tractor fuel". Asking anyone who has an opinion.
 
what year WD? there were some improvements (not alot) over the time they were built.

you can probably find a decent WD45 for the same $. a tad more power and a bit newer. LOTS of parts available for the WD's new and used.

the WDs are lighter for sure but have a peppy engine and are simple to work on. the WD doesn't have what I call a true live PTO. you cannot just hit a lever and engage the PTO. you have to push in the foot clutch and engage the PTO and then let the clutch out. the hand clutch on the WD lets you operate like a live PTO so keep that in mind. the WD snap coupler hitch set up is fairly easy to convert to standard 3pt hitch but could make getting on/off a bit more challenging.

I've spent alot of time in the seat of the WD45 and some on a WD. I cannot say I know much about the MiniMo's other than they are heavier built.

for small acres and the price the WD will probably do what you want. If it were myself I would probably look for a good small newer Case 430/530 or smaller Ford 3000/4000 or Oliver 55/550 but those will be a bit more $.
 
Dad had a 52 MM U with the live power option. He had a problem with the live power in that the adjustment was very touchy. If you set it tight enough for plowing and other field work it would be very grabby when using the live power. Set it loose enough to smooth out the live power then it would slip when doing field work.

With the baler, a good even windrow will lessen the need for live power.
 
(quoted from post at 09:41:31 07/01/21) Today kerosene would be equivalent to tractor fuel. Was
cheaper back then than gas.
Click to expand...
y F-20 would run on kerosene, but it had a small tank for gasoline. You started the engine on gas, then closed the gas valve and opened the main valve. Was the Allis like that?
 
The brakes on WDs and 45s (adjusted as per the book) are excellent and have a lock so you can lock them in park. Easy to lock the wheels up to any time the power is
off. As to the foot clutch, the reach is adjustable at the top of the lever/pedal and you don't need your foot near it at any time for a quick stop. Your left foot can
rest on the step under the seat and for a quick stop just throw out the hand clutch. Mostly you use the foot clutch to shift as the oil in the multi disc hand clutch can
drag causing grinding gears unless the oil is a thin oil and warm, and maybe even then. But the hand clutch is very rugged and will stand a lot of abuse (slipping/riding)
and after much use can have shims removed to restore to like new. WDs had 34.6 hp and 45 43.something. A good engine in a WD will probably have enough power for most
things and a 45 is a hot rod.
 
I would vote WD of the 2 choices you listed by far since it will be a user and parts will be plentiful for it. Since you do not have one yet I would try to find one of the latest WD serial number models that got what eventually became the updated WD45 rear end and tranny gears. (most easily recognized by the curved gear selection shifter instead of the straight gear selection shifter). There is a serial number break that got these toward the end of the WD run.

I almost bought one of these myself as the pseudo live PTO via the hand clutch would have been very handy for baling...but the wife refused to even test drive it which sorta made that deal fall through. She does not complain about driving most of the other relic around here but refused that Allis. Make sure you are comfortable with the operator station ergonomics or lack there of before you commit. If you do not like then consider Allis D15 or better yet Allis D17 which are much more ergonomically friendly.
 
The moline will be easier to get on and off, be more stable
and get pushed around less, and ride smoother with the larger
tires. I disagree with most of the parts comments since most
of the parr's you will need like belts,hoses, ignition parts,
gages and such are common for both and available at any
decent auto parts store. Radiator can be re-cored. You will be
less likely to need internal parts for the moline and they are
available used. If you want to restore it and want new sheet
metal or seat parts the Allis has an advantage.
 


The moline will be easier to get on and off, be more stable
and get pushed around less, and ride smoother with the larger
tires. I disagree with most of the parts comments since most
of the parr's you will need like belts,hoses, ignition parts,
gages and such are common for both and available at any
decent auto parts store. Radiator can be re-cored. You will be
less likely to need internal parts for the moline and they are
available used. If you want to restore it and want new sheet
metal or seat parts the Allis has an advantage.
 
Tractor fuel is the common name for Distillate. This fuel is a low octane byproduct of creating gasoline in the beginning
of spark ignition engines, and could be ordered on IH tractors into the late 50s. Refineries were far from what we have
today, and the cracking process could not economically refine this component into fuel oil/diesel, or regular gasoline.
The result was the availability of distillate for about 1/2 the price of regular gasoline. It required a compression
ratio of about 4:1 to limit spark knock, and was so reluctant to burn that tractors needed to be started on pure gasoline
to heat them enough to vaporize the tractor fuel. even when running they needed to have restricted radiator shutters and
heated intake manifolds to keep operating. The fuel was also prone to condensing on the cylinder walls and
draining/blowing into the oil pan. After a day's work it was likely to have added a quart of fuel to the oil. SOP was to
open a petcock in the oil pan and drain the oil down to that level (which was about a quart low) then add a quart of new
oil to the full mark. There are no equivalent liquids available today. Making some up by mixing gasoline with Kerosene or
fuel oil is not recommended. Now the diesel fuel costs more than gasoline because distillation and catalytic cracking are
more efficient making gasoline, and the removal of Sulphur in diesel is also a contributing cost for diesel. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 13:16:48 07/01/21) Tractor fuel is the common name for Distillate. This fuel is a low octane byproduct of creating gasoline in the beginning
of spark ignition engines, and could be ordered on IH tractors into the late 50s. Refineries were far from what we have
today, and the cracking process could not economically refine this component into fuel oil/diesel, or regular gasoline.
The result was the availability of distillate for about 1/2 the price of regular gasoline. It required a compression
ratio of about 4:1 to limit spark knock, and was so reluctant to burn that tractors needed to be started on pure gasoline
to heat them enough to vaporize the tractor fuel. even when running they needed to have restricted radiator shutters and
heated intake manifolds to keep operating. The fuel was also prone to condensing on the cylinder walls and
draining/blowing into the oil pan. After a day's work it was likely to have added a quart of fuel to the oil. SOP was to
open a petcock in the oil pan and drain the oil down to that level (which was about a quart low) then add a quart of new
oil to the full mark. There are no equivalent liquids available today. Making some up by mixing gasoline with Kerosene or
fuel oil is not recommended. Now the diesel fuel costs more than gasoline because distillation and catalytic cracking are
more efficient making gasoline, and the removal of Sulphur in diesel is also a contributing cost for diesel. Jim
Click to expand...
ounds a lot like my F-20. Just never heard it called tractor fuel before. Thanks for the info.
 
I originally had thought about a D17, but they seem to cost a lot more than a WD/WD45. Also Im not sure if the Power Director on the D17 is more or less reliable than the WD/WD45 hand clutch? I should have stated that Im 29 years old, 6 foot 1 inch, and in good shape. So climbing on a WD45 doesnt intimidate me, but maybe the awkward sitting position would? I feel like a WD/WD45 would be a lot easier and cheaper to find than a ZBU as well. There doesnt seem to be many ZBUs around for sale.

This post was edited by GMDieselman1950 on 07/01/2021 at 03:54 pm.
 
I'm just curious, what made you narrow your search to just the WD and the ZBU if there are not many ZBUs available in your area?
 
An early D17 in good condition with good tires should not be much more than 2,500 dollars which is what you would be paying for a ZBU in good condition. The D17
Series 4 is where the big price difference is versus the earlier tractors in the series. Not sure of all of the differences in them. Maybe Bob Bancroft will drop in on this
thread to tell us. For a worker for 2,500 dollars I would be inclined in getting an early D17. Those and the D15's had the most crossover appeal for farmers who were not
deep into AC products. In some ways not as nice as a Ford 4000 but there sure were a fair amount around here anyways.
 

Well that comes down to the brands I like lol. I really like both AC and MM. So when researching what older classic tractor models I could use for hobby farming, I chose the ZBU because it would be a good size, Live PTO, and has a foot clutch.
 
I like ZBUs too. i grew up driving one.

Keep in mind it is not a true 'live' pto. Pulling back the lever stops the ground drive, but all the gears in the transmission are still
turning, so you can't shift gears. I never ran a bailer, but you definately need an overrunning clutch on the pto with a brush cutter behind
it. Otherwise the momentum of the implement will push the tractor somewhere you don't want to go.
 
I can tell just by looking I could not stand that position to drive an Allis. And the Moline will have an extra gear.
 

Could you explain how the live PTO works on the ZBU? Ive seen the cutaway drawings of a WD/WD45 and it looks like on those that when you use the hand clutch that the transmission gears shouldnt stay spinning. Im not familiar with the design that the ZBU has.
 
I guess since I would have to fool with the hand clutch on them, I would opt for some thing completely different. Though my knowledge of either is very limited. I would go with the MM bigger tires will pull more than smaller ones and ride better too.
 
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