Cat D2 J, What do I need to know?

I have to make about a 1/4 miles graded driveway with a pretty steep pitch. I have an est from a dirt company of $3600. I found a Cat D2 that will do the job for about $5000, and I'd rather buy that and DIY, than pay the dirt guy.

I drove a AC dozer once about 50 feet, but know nothing about the dozing process. Like many other jobs I've done, I want to learn it, and get the work done without paying someone else.

One could say, my spending extra $2400 is the fee for me to learn how to doze a driveway.

What should I know to start? Presuming the dozer works as designed, and the blade operates nominally.

take your time small cuts

FOR THAT $, U CAN GET A D-4, OR SMALL CASE...ENJOY UR PONY MOTOR, THEY GOTZ CHARACTER, THROWCARB AWAY, GET MOWER CARB...BE BLESSED, GRATEFUL, PREPARED...

D 2 is pretty small and if it has the pony start you will soon learn to hate it. I'd shop around and find something with electric start unless of course it has that. I've spent many an hour on Dozier and they can be fun to use but hard on ones back

Much depends on the soil conditions and vegetation. What is pretty steep to you may be a gentle grade to a Montanan. Drop
in feet in that 1/4 mile would tell us a lot. If the soil is undisturbed (not under cultivation or uncompacted fill) it
will be different than if it were. are there changes in the contour that make it steep in some places and flatter in
others?
Following is an example for a home driveway that will be used daily in mid usa (like Iowa)assuming there is 8 to 10 inches
of top soil with organics in it over the whole distance. Assuming the gradient has a basic flatness to the top 100 feet,
and then is moderately steep the remaining distance. Assume it also is on a clay base with alluvial medium small random
stones. Assuming also it will be 10 feet wide where tires will roll.
The first task is to stake out the location it will be located with boundary stakes. These will be placed about 30 feet
apart along the route, and 14 feet apart across. The 4 feet extra will be on the side of the road bed where a shallow
drainage ditch will be located. Using a transit, or level (laser or glass) mark the stakes where cutting into the subsoil
is needed, and fill required. two or three people with at least one knowing what is happening is critical with this.
Top soil is never acceptable under the lane, so assess where it will need to go. There will be a massive amount, and it
must be accounted for. Using it to create contours or garden plot or ? is best rather than the expense of moving it off
site.
With that planned, a dozer can only push so much, so starting at the end where the top soil will be used, cut into the soil
toward the pland location between the stakes. Try to stay centered as much as possible and keep the blade straight across
to push the soil in 2 to 3 inch cuts. This single width cut allows your blade to carry more in front of it because there
ar edges on either side. Cut down to the sub soil in a sequence of cuts in that same cut all the way to the opposite end,
or where a second storage pile for topsoil is to be found.
Next clean the edges out to the stakes, again pushing to the deposit site/s. The cut and fill needed should be done next,
pushing the subsoil from high spots into low. Drive over the fill with the dozer and vehicles to compact it.
Contour the dtich, and the road bed so the sub soil is just slightly lower across the 10 feet toward the 4 foot od shallow
waterway. the waterway/ditch should be 4 to 6 inches deep, not a nasty trench. next is rock. The lowest base should be 1
to 2 stone on the lane, and 2 to 3 inch in the waterway. This should be about 6 inches thick, and driven on and smoothed
out to be even. 3/4 inch road base with fines is next, only on the lane, not the waterway, using enough to create the
desired surface probably more like 3 inches. Again compact it (a roller is best here!). the top should be crouned where
there is no waterway, or very slightly slanted toward the waterway.
There is radical differences of opinion on the proper way, but this is a start.
If this is just an access lane with very occasional use in good weather much of the detail is not needed. But removal of
top soil is really necessary to make a real road. Jim

I owned a track loader for a while, and learned a lot, but no
where an expert level. And I have been operating tractors all my
life. What would concern me is learning on a steep hill. It would
be much safer to learn on flat ground; with a dozer you basically
only want to drive up or down on a hill, not sideways. Even going
up or down one track can hit a rock or tree root, slip, and turn
sideways very quickly. You need to have a 'feel' for things, and a
hillside is not the best place to learn. You can compound a slip
or slid situation if you are not super ready and make a mistake
move. Like if someone in a car hits the gas instead of the brake;
'might' be ok on open road, but not in the garage! And if a track
comes off on a hill or you get stuck, you almost need another
dozer or piece of equipment to get unstuck. Not trying to be a
pessimist, just want you to be safe. Good luck, Mark.

First thing is to figure out what you're going to do with the 400 to 500 cubic yards of topsoil you'll need to strip. Can't build on topsoil and if it needs to be moved off site it's usually difficult to find someone to take it. And, if you've not tried to strip with a dozer, you likely will start gouging and may wind up with a lot more topsoil than that.

docmirror: A D2J is going to be, roughly, pre-1947, and is going to be quite a handful to run--manual everything and quite possibly not even power-angle blade. If so, it's going to be a lot of work to move that much dirt and get it where you want it, especially if you're on sloping ground. Of course it CAN be done, but I think you're going to get a LOT more of an education than you want in how hard it is to do good work with a small, old dozer. Can you give us a few more details on the exact machine you're looking at? Dozers in that era were as often used for farming as construction, and the blade setups varied widely. If we know what you have to work with we'll be able to give you better information on how to do what you want.

I love my pony motors on my D2 and D4!

Hire it out and save the extra money for something else.


Vito

Yes some people like them but I know more dislike them. When they run well they work well but when they don't run well they can be a bear to fix and make run

the J series D2 did not come with factory Cat blades--mostly it is an aftermarket blade or home made--The dozer mostly likely has the smaller diameter idlers so they tend to rock and roll a lot and that makes grading difficult
a 3J is narrow gauge and 5J is a wide gauge

Sounds like the $3600 would be your best way to go. Owning a dozer can be an expensive experience especially if you are new to maintaining and operating one. I am
sure you can learn to operate the machine but I am afraid you will find it harder that you thought to learn to make level cuts and will take some time to do so. I have no
idea where you are located and what kind of ground you will be dealing with but a D2 would not be my first choice for the job but yes it can do it. Good luck either way
you go, but if you decide to buy a dozer find someone that has experience with them to look it over. As I said a worn out undercarriage can be expensive.

yes i agree--the pony motor has to be set up correctly to have it start and run good the mag and carburetor are crucial items
the Carb as to be perfectly cleaned in all its passage ways and then the tank and lines have to be rust free

I knew a guy that had what I think was a D-8 and the pony always caused him big problems

78 years of experience here so take it for what it is worth. Forget buying a 60+ year old dozer and
expecting it to do something. If you feel like you want to run something rent a small dozer or a
track skid steer for two or three days and get the job done. Probably can beat the $3800 but then
the job may not be done as nice. Experience is hard to come by.

Wow, guys - I appreciate the time and effort. I'm thinking based on what I'm hearing about this, that maybe the dozer job on a steep hill is not a good plan for a beginner with a very old and very small machine.

I'm building a hangar on my lot in S NM. The access road to the lot is about 35' higher than the lot. It's a taper from the access road to the lower lot. I'll need fill on the edge, which means I"m going to need a revetment or barrier wall on one side. I've already bored holes and put in some power pole posts. I was going to string some chain link fence between posts.

I didn't know about the top soil thing, and yes - we have a lot vegetation including loose ground cover, and pine and spruce trees.

Might be better for me to start with a better machine, and better project. I think I'd just make a big dirt pile mess, and then have to pay the $3600 anyway once I messed it all up.

I once made a small mistake with a TD-6 which is a tad bit bigger then a D-2. I got on a hill side and slide sideways and had a number of people watching they expected it to roll over on top of me but I got lucky and was able to spin it around enough that it didn't. I parked i for the night after that happened

How rocky is your site? If it's just sand and clay, I'd look for a small self-loading (aka paddlewagon) scraper.

A small (relatively speaking) dozer is a neat toy to have around for odd jobs, but I wouldn't want to tackle a big project with a WWII-vintage D2. For one thing, if you break anything it could turn into a nightmare trying to get it fixed.

(quoted from post at 23:52:06 06/22/21) Wow, guys - I appreciate the time and effort. I'm thinking based on what I'm hearing about this, that maybe the dozer job on a steep hill is not a good plan for a beginner with a very old and very small machine.

I'm building a hangar on my lot in S NM. The access road to the lot is about 35' higher than the lot. It's a taper from the access road to the lower lot. I'll need fill on the edge, which means I"m going to need a revetment or barrier wall on one side. I've already bored holes and put in some power pole posts. I was going to string some chain link fence between posts.

I didn't know about the top soil thing, and yes - we have a lot vegetation including loose ground cover, and pine and spruce trees.

Might be better for me to start with a better machine, and better project. I think I'd just make a big dirt pile mess, and then have to pay the $3600 anyway once I messed it all up.

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I think that is a good choice on this project. $3600 sounds like a very good price, especially if that includes bringing in material.

If you want to try a smaller project, on better terrain, rent a newer machine for a weekend and see how you make out. Unless you have regular use for it, doing an occasional rental makes more sense than owning. A 6 way hydraulic blade is light years ahead of an old straight blade. An experienced operator can do a lot with a straight blade but a lot more time in the seat is needed to be proficient with one, compared to a 6 way blade. Also, a mini excavator with a blade can be better for some projects than a dozer. Doing a rental of the right machine for a project is easier if you don't own one you should use because you have it.

If you want to learn some of the ins and outs and trials and tribulations of owning a Cat D2, get on youtube and look up squatch253. Especially his series on restoring D2 #5J1153, especially the early videos where he's taking the machines apart. You'll be amazed at what he finds and won't believe these machines ran, and were used up to when they were parked.

He's done series on just about everything D2. Pony motors. Undercarriages. Engine overhauls.

The D-2 is not the best model Cat. the roller frame is held in line by that shaft you see in the middle of the roller frame. When the bearings get loose the roller frame will wander out of alignment from the front idler running the track off. Dad's D-4 has an arm going back under the tractor with bearings and they hold it aligned better and more durable.
For driveway grading you either want a tilt and angle blade or just buy an old grader. The grader will angle and tilt to keep the crown on the drive so the water drains off. If not crowned water will set then you get holes with water setting in them.
You do have to be smarter than the dozer to run them. I never had a sliding issue with one using it. did lots of dozing on the farm filled 2 wet swamps with them 40 years ago. Would push clay out till the front would just start to tip a bith then back up for the next pass. push out the muck in summer and fill in fall and early spring. Filled 3 feet. Push topsoil and muck back over top.

Sounds like the purchase of the Cat would be a good thing. You could always have a lot fun with it digging holes, knocking
down things, etc. And the cat would always be worth the same amount of money. Oh, by the way the difference is $1400, not
$2400 like you stated.

I used a disk behind Jubilee to remove the sod where I built pole barn. I used loader on terramite to remove the sod. Made a large pile of compost. A year later grass disappeared leaving me a pile of good dirt.


A disk should work if you don't have rocks.

If this is a new drive, dirt only, you are going to haul in many many tons of large rock or gravel #2, Just for roadbed.
20 ton tri axle load won't go very far.

Started operating in the early seventies and still do so ever now and then. Have run D-2 and up. Good work can be done with those
old ones with know how, but wouldn't think of using one now. Rent one would be the way to go for doing it yourself. Get a 6 way
blade with one hand steer with forward and reverse on the same lever will be easier for a starter. Unless in a tight spot get the
next size bigger than you think is needed unless cost or feeding it fuel is a issue.

(quoted from post at 05:22:50 06/23/21) Sounds like the purchase of the Cat would be a good thing. You could always have a lot fun with it digging holes, knocking
down things, etc. And the cat would always be worth the same amount of money. Oh, by the way the difference is $1400, not
$2400 like you stated.

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Hmm, I'm not so sure. More often than not, a machine that old is a money pit. Something to play with. Something to spend years chasing after parts for to make it workable. Not something to take home and put right to work UNLESS the machine is a real creampuff.

I'd skip the part of the project that involves buying the CAT. I'd only buy a machine like that if I were confident I could immediately sell it for at least what I paid if things didn't work out. I don't see anyone handing over five-thousand dollars for an antique, and certainly not if they intended to do any work with it. And collectors would probably pass or want it for much less.

I did a similar project years ago at my previous house. Former owner left a hole where a swimming pool was dug into the side of a hill. I rented a loader/backhoe to move a load of dirt from a tandem dump truck and graded over the whole thing to finish. Remarkably good job for a rank amateur. Once seeded, you'd never know anything was there. It was a lot less worry using a machine that I knew would be replaced if anything broke.

Bobcat T-180 tracked loader rents at the local place here for $1180/wk. It's part of a chain, ABC rentals. Even if you spend a couple days getting used to the machine, you'd be money ahead using something like that to do the job. You can do an amazing amount of work with those machines and it'll have ROPS, likely an enclosed cab and maybe even AC.

Gerrit

Pony is good on my old d6. Just use a car battery to start it. Coolant from pony circulates through big engine to warm it up. Exhaust from pony passes through intake of big engine to warm intake air. Can start big engine turning with compression released to build oil pressure. Open fuel to big engine and flip compression lever and its running. No large batteries to maintain.