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Aircraft fuel

AV gas costs more but will last much, much longer in the tank. It's much higher quality fuel than ordinary gas.
 
Unless you have modified the engine with much higher compression it is not necessary. Will it run, yes.
 
(quoted from post at 07:26:42 06/13/21) local airport close they have a card troll with 101 octane will I have any problems burning that on tractor rides?
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he tractor would probably have an uncontrollable urge to take off down the runway as fast as it can.
 
If that is the only source of fuel sure. Unless your tractor is modified heavily in compression (like 10:1) it is both a waste, and produces lead contamination as well, while reducing the total performance. It is less powerful and harder to ignite than regular fuel from a filling station. If you have been using E10, and have used it for a while, there is no justification in using the wrong fuel. The Av gas is used by general aviation because of turbo charging. Direct drive propellers limit engine speed to sub sonic propeller tip speed. This limits RPM to lower values than autos. To limit detonation, it is still needed in those engines. Rather than risk aviation using the wrong fuel and causing crashes, there is only one AV gas in airports. It won't ruin the engine in any way, but useless increased tractor performance it has none. Jim
 

If.. you have a tractor where the gas tank is above the engine... maybe it might help as the additives will keep it from pinging or detonating early due to heat or hot spots in the combustion chamber. Otherwise it has no extra hp in itself. It can/MUST be used in much higher compression engines, that DO produce more power.

Tractors were designed to run all day under full loads so the design supports regular low octane fuels and some cases even substandard fuel types.

Due heat loads aviation fuel still has "lead" type octane additives to insure the premium performance under extreme high heat loads. Lots of aircraft engines are air cooled further increasing heat loads while on the ground and taxing. Turbo and supercharges even create more power and heat loads on these engines.
 

If you wanting to get away from ethanol check with a local bulk supplier
Mine has regular 87 octane gas with no ethanol, cost $.20 more and I dont have the issues one has with gas containing ethanol
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:12 06/13/21) Credit card access at the pump. Sometimes requiring an authorization ID card as well. Jim
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Even if you can get past the perimeter fence and the pump is attended by a gas jockey, you might not get any fuel unless you can convince the attendant it is for a plane.

Some are not attended after hours but you still have to get past the perimeter fence with a separate card or code.

If they sell mogas, that could be a source for non-ethanol gas if none is available elsewhere.

Taxes are miniscule compared to road fuel taxes but the price you will pay is still higher.

Here is a website that will show aviation fuels available and prices near you.
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html
 

Aviation fuels are less volatile than standard gasoline since, they are intended for use at higher altitudes, where the atmospheric pressure is less than at ground level. The volatility of standard gasoline is controlled by blending to meet specific vapor pressure requirements for operation at ground level. This vapor pressure requirement is important for ease of starting/drive-ability, especially in cold/cooler temperatures. So, you could notice the tractor requires more cranking to start on cool mornings and a greater tendency to stubble when opening the throttle.

Aviation fuels typically contain lead. I do not have the specs for the 101 fuel referenced however, I suspect it will contain some level of lead. So, lead can deposit on spark plugs resulting in fouling and no start conditions.

Finally, for aviation fuel the "101" label is not a octane rating that directly correlates to the octane rating posted on the pump at your local gas station. Test method is different for aviation fuel than the method used to determine the octane of standard gasolines. If your tractor can use pump gasoline the octane of the 101 should also suffice. As posted, once the octane needs of an engine are met, additional octane does not result in increased performance. Similar to running shoes: wearing shoes larger than your feet will not improve your performance...eh.

In conclusion: aviation fuel will work but it brings some "baggage" with it.
 
Been using it for several years since my pilot cousin suggest it. Don't have any carb gumming with the tractors that might run only once a year for parades. I was complaining to him about gummed up carbs & he suggested I try avaiation gasoline. I even use it in my snow blower & lawn equipment. Haven't had a carb apart since I started using it. Don't see any down side to using it. Might be a little more costly, but a lot less hassle so it's worth it to me.
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:29 06/13/21) We're only talking 20 gallons and $.70 a gallon higher.
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If that is 0.70$ more than 87 octane at your local gas station, that is a very good price.

In my area the average price of 100LL avgas is $1.89/gal more.
 

I used to buy 100LL (low lead) to use for chain saw gas and sometimes in the mowers. Walking a quarter mile out on the tarmac to where the fuel truck is sitting wasn't any fun for a couple gallons. Then the 2 or 3 inch fuel nozzle doesn't fit the gas can so some gets spilled.

After they changed the rules they wouldn't sell it that way except I could get it at the card pump which is easy to get to at our airport but it was more hassle than it was worth. Now I can get premixed can gas that is 96 octane depending upon the brand (some are 93 or so, you have to read the label).
 

We use 100LL is small gasoline engines that rarely operate or are in storage for extended intervals .
100LL does not gum up fuel systems and does not corrode fuel system components .
I dont give the least little bit of care about saving a mere $20 a year when we can have engines that start and run without cleaning and rebuilding carbs .
100LL has ended the carb problems with the V4 starting engines on the two cylinder diesels .
The only time ethanol is allowed here is in highway vehicles on a trip when the fuel will be used within a couple of days .
 
About 99.99% of this discussion is blowing right by me .... but one thing that makes sense. I can see why there is no 'road tax' on fuel for your airplane. Well, maybe in an emergency landing on a highway now and then.
 

Good point buick. Most small aircraft engines like in a cessna 150/172 are certified now to use regular mogas but it took a while before some airports had a tank and pump for it. As I recall some used it and some stayed with the 100 lowlead. I don't think they are certified for ethanol though. I'm guessing they modified the engines compression ratio or something. Last time I did a biennial it seems like there was a little pinging with the instructor's rented 172.
 
Personally I highly recommend.

It is a great asset in the battle of minimal usage and long term storage engines and fuel systems. The local small airport sells 110 LLC low lead content at the card lock pump. Combine that stuff with fuel stabil and add to to you fuel tank for trouble free starting next spring or year or 4 years.

Works wonders in generators welders and water pumps but also great in tractor and car storage.

During my 9 year employment at a independent VW shop in greater Portland oregon metro area where DEQ testing is required to renew registration tags on your cars every two years, much of our work included the passing of those DEQ emission tests. The happiest customers were the ones who brought theirs cars in to us after trying other shops and spending thousands of dollars but still failing the DEQ test. We would ask if they ran cheap gas which of course they did. So we would ask customer to bring car back when it was quarter tank or lower. When they returned, we would pour in a 5 gal jug of 110 LLC and send them off to thier DEQ test which they would pass with flying colors. When customer would return with the passed test slip they would usually ask why no other shop ever asked about the quality of fuel in the tank.

Sorry, last story.
A customer knew he was leaving the country for a while so he asked us the pickle his daily driver 1958 VW bus in Hope that it would not cost too much to get it roadworthy when he returned. Fast forward 4 years later and he finally returned from his peace core trip to Africa. He anxiously tows bus from storage to have us check it. We install new battery, remove the stick holding clutch down to prevent sticking, and pull the spark plugs out to check the cylinders and valves which were still coated with marvel mystery oil. With spark plugs out, we cranked over engine with coil wire pulled to check for spark while continuing to crank til oil light went out. Spark plugs reinstalled and started up like it had just been run. After sitting over 4 years.
Just sharing my experiences.
Not written in stone.
Not a law.
Just sharing stories
 
Dad used to keep a helicopter and a tank
of 100LL AVgas at our shop. He sold the
helicopter eventually but the fuel tank
remained. We ended up running that stuff
in everything. Seems like a year or 2
after we were still using it. Never had
any problems with the gas. The old '48
John Deere D ran fantastic on it. The
exhaust smelled good too, ha!

Later I would go to the local airport and
they'd bring a truck over and fill up my
cans. When they put in a self serve pump
they told me just drive out and fill up.
Airport got busier and has a control tower
now. I haven't tried filling up since that
went up.
 
I won't question any of what you've said, but will add that putting low lead fuel in a vehicle that requires unleaded fuel is illegal.
 
(quoted from post at 14:49:30 06/13/21) I won't question any of what you've said, but will add that putting low lead fuel in a vehicle that requires unleaded fuel is illegal.
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And it will kill the catalytic converter if so equipped.
 
From my research, 100LL (dyed blue) has about the same amount of lead as Super Premium did back in the day.

It's called low lead from back when there was also the purple dyed military avgas that had a lot more lead in it for big radials.

There was also a lower octane avgas dyed red, also long gone.
 
Deposits from the lead additive were quite visible on spark plugs at the 25 hour cleaning interval. (going back to flight school days)
 
OO7 - That is a really interesting site about the gasolines available and cost per gallon. I'd heard so much about 100 low lead years ago I called the local private airport and it was no bargain. I could buy 108 octane leaded racing gas for less and mix that with the straight 100% unleaded 93 octane recreational gas all our Kwik-Trip stations sell. I burned a gallon of leaded race gas and 4 gallons of straight 93 octane for many years. I just burn the 93 100% gas in everything now, lawn mowers, my FARMALL's, mix the pre-mix for the weed-eater, leaf blower & chain saws with the 93 octane too.
When I was running the leaded race gas and premium gas mix in the FARMALL'S the inside of the muffler outlet got the same battleship gray as they did back in 1964 &'65 when we did all our fieldwork with gas Super M-TA's and 450's.
If I went on a tractor drive, I'd just be sure I had 100% gas in the tank, no ethanol. Ethanol by itself is a great engine fuel, you have to really modify the carb to run the engine rich enough to run E-100, the blue flames out the exhaust look great at night at tractor pulls and stock car races. Ethanol burns nice and cool, makes great HP.
 
LOTS OF BAD INFO, EXAGERATION, MISUNDERSTANDING HERE, OF AIRCRAFT ENGINES/100LL...IT IS 100 OCTANE...BURS IN YORELOW COMPRESSION TRACTOR SAME, STARTS SAME, NO PROBS...IT WILL LEAVE SMALL LEAD BALLS @ BASE OF PLUG INSULATOR...U DIG IT OUT, W/PIK, EVERY 50 HRS...HOW LONGS IT TAKE US TO LOG 50 HRS?? IT NEVER EATS RUBBER, SEALS, GASKETS...U WILL LIKE IT...FLYIN 60 YRS...BE BLESSED, GRATEFUL, PREPARED...FLY, PLOW, BALE SAFE...
 
(quoted from post at 17:42:56 06/13/21) LOTS OF BAD INFO, EXAGERATION, MISUNDERSTANDING HERE, OF AIRCRAFT ENGINES/100LL...IT IS 100 OCTANE...BURS IN YORELOW COMPRESSION TRACTOR SAME, STARTS SAME, NO PROBS...IT WILL LEAVE SMALL LEAD BALLS @ BASE OF PLUG INSULATOR...U DIG IT OUT, W/PIK, EVERY 50 HRS...HOW LONGS IT TAKE US TO LOG 50 HRS?? IT NEVER EATS RUBBER, SEALS, GASKETS...U WILL LIKE IT...FLYIN 60 YRS...BE BLESSED, GRATEFUL, PREPARED...FLY, PLOW, BALE SAFE...
Click to expand...
here's no need to yell. We can read you just fine.
 
(quoted from post at 12:45:17 06/13/21)
Good point buick. Most small aircraft engines like in a cessna 150/172 are certified now to use regular mogas but it took a while before some airports had a tank and pump for it. As I recall some used it and some stayed with the 100 lowlead. I don't think they are certified for ethanol though. I'm guessing they modified the engines compression ratio or something. Last time I did a biennial it seems like there was a little pinging with the instructor's rented 172.
Click to expand...

Ethanol attracts water .
Water is bad news in aviation fuel systems . It is cold up there and a frozen fuel filter means the pilot now has a glider .
 
(quoted from post at 15:18:25 06/13/21) Deposits from the lead additive were quite visible on spark plugs at the 25 hour cleaning interval. (going back to flight school days)
Click to expand...

That would have been in the days prior to 100LL.
iirc 100LL only contains 1/16th the amount of lead as 100/130 did in the good old days .
 
We now see 100 thousand miles on plugs! They get stuck from not being replaced. Valves and chambers are far cleaner. Not quite LPG clean, but way better. Jim
 
JUST BURN REGULAR AT THE STATION NO TRACTOR ENGINE WAS EVER BUILT THAT NEEDED 100PLUSS OCTANE GAS SAVE YOUR MONEY
 
How long to log 50hrs? About two weeks! (when I was instructing, later on Part 121 I was flying roughly 20hrs a week)

I've burned more than my fair shair of 100LL.

It is very stable and lasts a long time in storage. I know several guys that are using it just like the ones here on the forum in small engines and tractors that sit. It's the same story; guys pay for it to avoid the hassle of fuel system issues with engines that are used intermittently.

As for me, exhaust fumes are bad enough without adding lead back into the equation so I will pass!
 
I had found a chart somewhere that gave the weight per gallon of TEL in various fuels. I don't remember how it compared to the
115/145 purple stuff but it was significantly lower.
 
According to Wikipedia, 100LL has a maximum lead content of .56 grams per liter, while it's 1.12 for 100/130 and 1.29 for 115/145. (The article quotes sources for the 100LL and 115/145 specs, but not for 100/130). If these numbers are right, 100LL still contains about half as much lead as those other high-octane fuel, which is to say a bunch.

By comparison, the old 80/87 octane fuel only contained about .14 grams per liter. Which explains why owners of older aircraft had so much trouble with fouled spark plugs when 100LL was introduced as a replacement for 80/87.
Avgas
 
What do you hope to gain running avgas in your tractor? Unless you have very high compression, you don't need a high octane fuel.

When 100LL was first introduced, it was supposed to replace both 100/130 and 80/87. Pilots with old, low-compression engines (around 7 or 8 to 1) had a lot of problems with lead fouling of spark plugs on 100LL, which led to Supplemental Type Certificates allowing the use of unleaded mogas in aircraft. Contrary to popular belief, the mogas STCs were never about saving money but rather replacing a fuel that was no longer available (80/87).

A big plus for avgas is its low volatility. Avgas has a maximum Reid Vapor Pressure of 7 psi, so it has a very long shelf life. HOWEVER, summer grade fuel in the US is now limited to 7.8 psi, and in some areas to 7.0 psi, just like avgas. Ethanol blends are allowed an extra one psi. Winter grade fuel can be up to 9 psi RVP.

In many states, including Michigan, you can buy REC-90 fuel, which is supposedly ethanol-free. I've tried to find if there's an RVP spec for REC-90, and I've haven't found one. In fact, I haven't found ANY published spec for REC-90, which leads me to wonder if it's anything other than rebranded unleaded mogas. I assume it has to meet the local RVP requirements for mogas, but I don't know that for sure.
 
(quoted from post at 19:10:47 06/13/21)
100LL is 96 pump octane .
Click to expand...
here's no way to make that statement since all pump gas for cars is R+M/2 and avgas is not measured that way.
 
(quoted from post at 23:03:22 06/13/21) JUST BURN REGULAR AT THE STATION NO TRACTOR ENGINE WAS EVER BUILT THAT NEEDED 100PLUSS OCTANE GAS SAVE YOUR MONEY
Click to expand...

You are missing the point .
While the tractor engine does not need the octane . HOWEVER the show tractors and seasonal equipment fuel systems require a fuel that does not gum , varnish , attract water or attack rubber/plastic/aluminum .
 
(quoted from post at 09:24:17 06/14/21)
(quoted from post at 23:03:22 06/13/21) JUST BURN REGULAR AT THE STATION NO TRACTOR ENGINE WAS EVER BUILT THAT NEEDED 100PLUSS OCTANE GAS SAVE YOUR MONEY
Click to expand...

You are missing the point .
While the tractor engine does not need the octane . HOWEVER the show tractors and seasonal equipment fuel systems require a fuel that does not gum , varnish , attract water or attack rubber/plastic/aluminum .
Click to expand...

If that is the end goal, save your money and run mogas or any other non ethanol gas.
 
(quoted from post at 09:00:17 06/14/21)
(quoted from post at 09:24:17 06/14/21)
(quoted from post at 23:03:22 06/13/21) JUST BURN REGULAR AT THE STATION NO TRACTOR ENGINE WAS EVER BUILT THAT NEEDED 100PLUSS OCTANE GAS SAVE YOUR MONEY
Click to expand...

You are missing the point .
While the tractor engine does not need the octane . HOWEVER the show tractors and seasonal equipment fuel systems require a fuel that does not gum , varnish , attract water or attack rubber/plastic/aluminum .
Click to expand...

If that is the end goal, save your money and run mogas or any other non ethanol gas.
Click to expand...

This threat should be allowed to die but I simply have to point out that I (and I suspect many others) do not care about the cost as much as we care about the convenience. I don't give a hoot what it costs but if avgas is available across the road or somewhere conveniently I would buy it as long as it doesn't cause damage, and that was the question.
 
Ignoring the debate over rating methods etc.., I have experience to rely on. I have been using avgas in my high compression engine antique pulling tractors for many years. NO ISSUES!! On occasion, I have yielded to suggestions to run the high dollar 108 to 115 octane racing fuel. I can see no benefit in performance. Also: I can let my tractors sit all winter with no starting issues and use last year's left over fuel with no problems. The rating methods are so different, I don't see any accurate comparison method other than using some type of tester (like would be used by an organization to check compliance in their rules) and see how both fare. I see no reason to spend $12.00 a gallon on fuel when 4.00 performs the same. Getting 100LL at the small local airports is no issue either.
 

According the location of 100LL on the chart . Where would you say it rates?
mvphoto76948.png


mvphoto76949.png
 
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