Gelled fuel??

Cowboy2005 · Feb 9, 2021

I have a ls 170 new holland diesel skidsteer. Its got about 5ish gallons of fuel in it right now and I put some additive in to prevent gelling. However we've been hitting -17°F at night and a high of 0° F during the day. I had it plugged in all night and it started right up this morning, I let it warm up for 15ish minutes at a low idle and then went to use it and it reved up like normal but after a minute or so of use it acted like it was losing power and wouldn't react much when you moved the throttle. I'm thinking maybe its gelled fuel? I've got diesel 911, should I use some? And if so how much? Thanks,
-Garrett

BarnyardEngineering · Feb 9, 2021

Answer to first question: You've got nothing to lose.

Answer to second question: Use the recommended amount on the bottle.

5 gallons does not seem like much. You sure there's enough fuel in the tank to ensure adequate supply?

coonie minnie · Feb 9, 2021

Where do you live? And where do you source your fuel?

I don't mess with anything like 911, I just buy blended fuel from a reputable source.

In real extreme weather, such as below -30, I have cut in a little more kerosene or a small amount of gasoline (like a quart in 30 gallons of diesel) if I have had an issue with a particular tractor. I would not recommend gasoline with things like the Tier 3 or 4 systems, but it does work in the older diesels.

MarkB_MI · Feb 9, 2021

I'd take a trip to town for five gallons of #1 diesel and a new fuel filter.

dlbuck · Feb 9, 2021

I would change the fuel filter and fill it with winter blend before you install it. Doing that will tell you if it gelled or it ran out of fuel. I have helped more than one person whose machine just quit and they didn't know why, and it just ran out of fuel. Do you have winter blend in the tank now?

paul · Feb 9, 2021

Easier to fix before you have a problem than after.

When was the last time the filter was changed, could have some water in the bottom reducing flow, as well as typical crud. So, new filter.

Blend in the right amount of additive. There is a big drop off at 10f or below, needs to be right.

In my state we run up to a 20% bio blend in diesel in summer, switches to a 2-5% blend in winter after October. It’s real important here to get fuel after October 1st for winter. Any such issues there? You will really struggle with this if it is this cold and you have high percent of bio in your tank.

Blending in #1 is better than using just the additive. I nearly always just use the additive, but I never leave the yard with my diesels.

911 can help you but getting a bucket of hot water on the fuel filter, or getting it back in a heated shed, or directing heat on it for a while will do more and quicker for you. Nearly all your problem is collected in the fuel filter right now looks a lot like shot, and it takes a long long time for any 911 to eat its way there and accomplish anything in any amount.

On my old engines, it’s hard to find #1 diesel on a quick run to town. I will buy a 2 gallon jug of kerosine, as expensive as it is, and blend that in the fuel tank as if it were #1 diesel. You judge for yourself if that is a good idea on the newer, less tolerant diesels of today. It’s the ‘quick fix’ because I wasn’t prepared and stupid for my old stuff.

Paul

David G · Feb 9, 2021

You have to fix it now, for preventative I double the dosage for Bio.

jon f mn · Feb 9, 2021

You can't hurt it with antigel so use at least double. I've never had any luck with 911. I would just change the filter and treat it with Howes diesel treat. Truckers, who's lives depend on their fuel not gelling, use howes almost exclusively.

Cowboy2005 · Feb 9, 2021

Ok, I ran and got diesel fuel as far as I know the gas station i went to only sells onroad and off road diesel? Is that no.1 and no.2? I guess I'm kinda confused there. I put a new fuel filter on and put some 911 in the filter with the fuel as per the instructions on the bottle. I dont know if the 911 did anything or not but its running! I'm letting it warm up good now.
Thanks for all the help everyone!

-Garrett

paul · Feb 9, 2021

Tried to say your fuel filter will have collected the wax and look like snot. Dean spell checker.

Then, as soon as you run it again without it being any warmer, the wax from the fuel tank will gather again and plug it in 2-3 minutes. So you need better treatment, and or blending some #1 in the tank.

Anything to safely warm the fuel filter area, and the tank, will help you out now. A magnetic heater, some heat onto the machine with a canvas, in a warm building, etc.

Your fuel in the tank and in the line to the engine is waxy, if you don’t redissolve it it will just plug up again. The new filter gives you that 2-3 minutes of run time for the fuel from the tank, now warmer or blended or better additives, to flow through and keep things open.

Paul

SVcummins · Feb 9, 2021

Dump the big bottle of 911 in and change the filter . I run a double shot of power service in the winter the only time I’ve gelled up is when I didn’t use it . Had 10 trucks out of 15 gelled up using Howe’s as directed on the bottle the guys who dumped the whole bottle in every time they fueled didn’t have a problem

IowaJohn · Feb 9, 2021

Make sure you block the radiator with cardboard or something. I got caught a few years ago with no.2 in my chore tractor when the temp went below zero. I blocked the radiator off and put feed sacks along side of the engine to keep the pump,filters and return line warm. It was an early 4020 and I got along fine.

tomstractorsandtoys · Feb 9, 2021

They have 2 fuel filters and the little inline one always plugs first. My dealer sells a different one for winter time use as the factory plugs to often. I also have eliminated the inline one and just used a piece of tube to bypass it to get the cows fed and move the skid loader to a warm place. Tom

SVcummins · Feb 9, 2021

Number one you can use straight when it’s super cold then you don’t need an additive

pete 23 · Feb 9, 2021

I don't know about today's anti gell additives, but back in the late 90's we were instructed that they had to be put in the fuel long before it reaches the temperature where it might gell or it will not mix and do it's job.

Most just went to straight number one fuel instead of the popular 50-50 mix for chore tractors.

The Deere tractors with front mounted fuel tank were the worst but I did see a IH with rear mount tank where the fuel looked like a milk shake.

MarkB_MI · Feb 9, 2021

> Ok, I ran and got diesel fuel as far as I know the gas station i went to only sells onroad and off road diesel? Is that no.1 and no.2? I guess I'm kinda confused there.

If your station doesn't label one of its pumps as #1 diesel, you can be certain it's all #2. #1 diesel is also known as kerosene. It's not available at most gas stations, but you can use K-1 kerosene instead. Adding 25 to 50 percent #1 to your #2 will pretty much guarantee it not to gel. Diesel anti-gel additives inhibit the formation of paraffin crystals; either your 911 or #1 diesel should do the trick.

Vito · Feb 9, 2021

The fuel they sell with the bio is crap in my opinion in the winter. Struggled hard one winter when it got cold out for a long period of time with the box truck I had at the time.

Vito

casecollectorsc · Feb 9, 2021

I agree...Power Service is junk! Almost thirty years truckin' and never had a problem with Howes. I do dump in a whole jug in 100 gallons. Temperature we have had lately, 10-20 below zero, I blend with #1 diesel.

neverfear · Feb 9, 2021

Be aware of free water in the bottom of your tank. I went through this a few years ago. No amount of 911 or anything else helped until I drained the tank and got the half cup of water out.
The ice crystals would float around and be sent to and plug the filter and not allow fuel through. The fuel itself was not gelled.

Russ from MN · Feb 9, 2021

When did you buy the fuel that was in it and where do you live? I don't see you on the members map. In MN the fuel you buy in the summer is 20% bio, and works fine in warmer weather, but will cause problems for sure in cold weather, so you need to plan ahead. If you're not sure what your buying for diesel go in and ask the manager, sometimes they know!

moresmoke · Feb 9, 2021

If you read the fine print on the Howes bottle, you need double the recommended dose if it is cold out.

I use whichever additive is on sale when I need some and have not had any problems.

rusty6 · Feb 9, 2021

Its ironic that most of the gelled fuel problems I hear about come from way down South where it does not usually get as cold as here in Sask. Fuel suppliers here sell diesel that will flow in our cold weather in winter. Nobody messes with summer fuel this time of year. I did convert some of my summer fuel using Howes treatment and it seems to flow ok too. But I do that before the weather gets super cold and mix it well. Plus I'll fill the hundred gallon slip tank on the pickup with winter diesel which is enough to get me through most winters.

SVcummins · Feb 9, 2021

Yessir I always put a double shot in my bulk tank plus another shot when I fill up the equipment. Power service is on sale two or three times a year for 10$ for a bottle that treats 250 gallon but 6 or 7 at a time that get me through the year . Never understood the guys on here that beat their chest that fuel treatment is a waste of money ? To cheap to spend 100$ or 2 on fuel additive . I guess too me the price of a set fuel filters and the time it takes to thaw one covers my additive cost. Hit a cold snap here one winter and the local hold em n screw em Is known not to treat fuel well everything was gelled except the pickup took a week cf 911 and changing filters and heaters and tarps to get things thawed again

David G · Feb 9, 2021

I used to drive a lot more than now. I would make sure and not go more than 250 miles north in the winter without stopping for fuel. It seems to be blended different according to the latitude.

moresmoke · Feb 9, 2021

A few years ago I bought a truck south of Memphis in January. Temps were decent as I headed north, but were supposed to be dropping good by the time I got home. Stopped in Council Bluffs, IA for fuel, and pulled up to the winter diesel pump. Gal at the fuel desk couldn’t understand why I would want to buy that expensive fuel? I was headed north of Fargo, I need winter fuel!

David G · Feb 9, 2021

I always bought Fleet Farm Arctic Diesel when traveling in MN.

paul · Feb 9, 2021

Rusty, you ever see the pic my wife cleaned up a bit of your tractor? I posted it here several days ago, and over at Newagtalk too?

Couple years ago we went from temps in the 30s to temps in the minus 10s f for highs in just a couple days.

My furnace runs on #2 fuel oil, it’s just diesel here. Tank is in the basement, the old wood room, gets cold but #2 works fine.

Anyhow the big temp swing, I ran out of furnace fuel on a weekend after 5:00.. I’ll be damaged if I will bother someone on a weekend for my mistake. Went to get fuel out of my tractor bulk tank, it wouldn’t flow.

Drove to town, went to the station that sells diesel. And they had a bag over the diesel pump. They froze up too.

Sigh. Managed to get some fuel to glop,out of the home tank, got it heated up in the basement, and got the furnace running over night. Could deal with it better when the sun was out the next day.

Paul

rusty6 · Feb 9, 2021

(quoted from post at 20:34:45 02/09/21) Rusty, you ever see the pic my wife cleaned up a bit of your tractor? I posted it here several days ago, and over at Newagtalk too?
My furnace runs on #2 fuel oil, it s just diesel here. Tank is in the basement, the old wood room, gets cold but #2 works fine.
Paul

Yes, if your fuel tank is in the basement you'd be fine running summer diesel in the furnace. Of course I only keep winter diesel in the space heater. I doubt summer diesel would work and why would I need the heater in summer anyway?

Used to hear about furnace fuel lines gelling up here way back when but who knows, they may have got some summer fuel dumped in by accident.
Not sure on the tractor picture. Was it the Cockshutt 40?

caterpillar guy · Feb 9, 2021

This gets kicked around about every couple of weeks here in the fall into winter. I don't understand all the fuel problems in cold weather. I don't treat/dope my fuel and don't have problems. Either the fuel supplier is doing an excellent job or I'm awful lucky.
When I had the truck on the road I didn't have problems either. I did tend to buy fuel where I had not had any problems in the past during the winter regardless of the price. I have even shut the truck off at Montpelier Id one night woke up in the morning to -28F started it up and let run while I ate and left with no problems, this was with the ole caterpillar engine. And yes the C-15 has more return fuel to help with freezing problems unlike the old A&B models that did not return as much. Though my 91 model with the B model Cat didn't have problems either drove it in a lot of -20 winter weather a couple of years. I did change fuel filters in the fall for the winter.

paul · Feb 9, 2021

Those with outdoor furnace tanks need a blend here for sure also.

I think so on the pic, you had said a while back one of your favorite pictures, it was a little linted up and the colors were very reddish hue, I had my wife clean out the
dust and correct the colors some.

Paul

Gelled fuel??

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