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Robertson square drive screws

D

Determined

Well-known Member
Reading SVcummins post about screwdrivers reminded me of a conversation I had with a guy from California back in the 90's.

Long story short he was a mechanic for a race team, they were up in Canada for a race and I was doing some repairs to their semi.

The fellow was putting a piece of plywood on a bench in the trailer and asked me for some woodscrews to secure it so I gave him a handful of Robertson head deck screws.

5 Minutes later he came back and said;

"Hey dude do you like have some kind of tool to put these in with?"

I was born and raised in Canada and have been using Robertson drive screws ever since I was big enough to hold a screwdriver so to me it did not seem logical for a mechanic not to know about or have Robertson screwdrivers.

That was back in the 90's.

Just curious.

How common are they in the USA now?

When did you first see and or start using them?
 
Love Robertson drive. Use them when I can.
No slip, no strip. Worked construction in
the 70's. Used them for decking steel.
Funny thing is company name was H.H.
Robertson.
 
My neighbor is an aircraft structure mechanic/engineer with Westjet up here in Canada. I asked him once why pretty much all of the screws on aircraft skins are the dreaded Phillips X-head types. He said that the Phillips design gives "good" (not the best) driver head contact and offers the most strength since relatively little metal is removed from the head to make them. He told me that Roberson heads are relatively weak in comparison with so much metal missing because of the square design. Just saying what I was told. I know that back in the day, all motorcycle cases were pretty much the dreaded Phillips ..... I say dreaded because unless you used an impact driver, you were pretty much guaranteed to mess them up when trying to take the engine cases apart. You could always tell if there had been engine work done, the Phillips heads were messed up.
 
Your friend is incorrect, Phillips head used to prevent over torquing with air/electric tools because it will spit the bit out/strip out. They would not be reused in things like structural airframe so doesn't matter if head strips.
 
I built a new and bigger deck on my house as my first retirement project,
and I found that deck screws come in all different drive configurations.
It was news to me at the time. The square drive and the Torx were my favorites.
Phillips were nearly unusable. Either the driver wore out after a couple hundred
screws or the heads would blow out.
 
Yep, I was in the fastener business for over 40+ years. When
Robertson drive screws showed up, through some for a loop. Almost
like metric, baffled people. Torx took over the lead especially in
woodworking. Buy a travel trailer and you can play with all the #2
square drive screws you want.
 
Well my original question to him was why they used Phillips instead of Robertson, maybe I didn't make that clear. Not sure if his answer then made more sense with that clarification or not. Steve's reply for sure is correct, bike engine cases are almost impossible to get apart without fastener head destruction. Not sure if bike engines still use them much or not. Meanwhile, I have found out that there are a number of different X-head designs (one of which is a true Phillips) and also that a square drive head is different than a true Robertson head. Interesting stuff .....
 
Up here in Canada most all the construction / woodworking
screws are Robertson.

Heavy construction for wood into steel ( truck decks, structural
projects like bridges etc will use the Torques Head screws.

Drywall screws are Phillips and that makes sense because
the drywall driver bit counter sinks the head onto the paper
and then looses grip and spins out, no over torquing or over
setting.

Phillips are also used in some electric installations... cases
where over torquing can be an issue.

All fasteners have a place, the hard part is finding the correct
bit sometimes.
Grant.
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:26 01/19/21) Most screws in the big box store are either Phillips or Torx here in the USA. Robertson is very rare.
Click to expand...

Not at all rare here in Florida.
I bet it is 50/50 maybe 40/60

Plus there is the small square drive half as big as the regular.
 

About two years ago I started scrapping every slotted fastener I come across in my drawers of surplus.
I only keep phillips, sq drive and torx.
Anything with a slot gets tossed.
 
Toss the slotted screws my way. I repair & build new antique furniture. The slotted screws add to the authenticity.
 
Yes they have some modified head profiles, I've worked on Suzuki's with them. Taught me about hand impact drivers, cutting slots in heads with Dremel, using chisels at perimeter, and welding nuts onto stripped out fasteners!
 
It is very annoying to go to lowes and grab a box of screws and find they are not Phillips head Some stupid sqauredrive or worse torx drive screws ,
 
Interesting post and replies, which lead to further reading, etc. It has been mentioned here that there are a number of "Philip's like" or X-type heads and they differ in a number of ways. Which might explain some of the difficulties people have with them. Also of interest is that there is a "square-head" driver design and also a true Robertson head design, they are not the same. Apparently a true Robertson has a very slight taper in the walls. Never heard that before.
 
A lot of the deck screws for sale around here in NY are combination head and can be driven with a #2 square drive bit or a #2 Phillips, but the square drive works a lot better of the two. Torx head screws are
the best, they never slip and the driver tip lasts forever. I volunteer building access ramps at people's houses occasionally, and the agency buys the screws. I'm always thrilled when I see they've sent Torx
heads, when I have to drive 8-10 pounds of them in a day.
 
(quoted from post at 08:32:19 01/19/21)
(quoted from post at 10:50:26 01/19/21) Most screws in the big box store are either Phillips or Torx here in the USA. Robertson is very rare.
Click to expand...

Not at all rare here in Florida.
I bet it is 50/50 maybe 40/60

Plus there is the small square drive half as big as the regular.
Click to expand...

I've never seen a square drive screw in any box store or hardware store around here. Completely nonexistent here in Upstate NY or anywhere else I've traveled.
 
You must not have looked very hard. Thousands of square-drive screws available at pretty much any hardware store around northern NY, along with the bits for them, and have been for several decades. Just picked up some at the local hardware store a couple weeks back. They are slowly fading in favor of Torx heads, but are still very much in evidence. One thing you may not realize until you look close--many wood screws that you think at first glance are meant for a Phillips head are in fact dual-use Phillips and Robertson heads.
 
I love the square head! They hardly ever
strip out like Phillips head and you can
even sharpen up the driver! I did a couple
of decks with torque head. Never again! The
head is only half the size of normal and
they will not hold down 2x6 very good.
 
(quoted from post at 18:46:58 01/19/21) I love the square head! They hardly ever
strip out like Phillips head and you can
even sharpen up the driver! I did a couple
of decks with torque head. Never again! The
head is only half the size of normal and
they will not hold down 2x6 very good.
Click to expand...

There are deck screws as well as cabinet screws with heads that are smaller diameter and have more taper as well.
There are made that way to reduce splitting the would.
You need to adjust the torque setting on the driver to less.
 
I vote for torx. Don't have to push as hard and bit lasts almost forever. There is a brand of torx that uses a smaller tapered bit. I have got those by mistake.
 
I bought some square drive screws just a month or two back. We were in the small Fleet Supply store in Roseau, and they were sent a big box of square drive drywall screws by mistake. While we don't use the black drywall screws very often, it won't be difficult to find indoor uses for 2" screws.

There was a note on the box to return to MFGer, so I asked the store owner how much for the box. Ended up getting them for less than half price. Can't beat that with a stubby screwdriver. *lol*

We usually use Torx screws these days, but I like square drive equally well when not priced too high.
 
I was talking with one of my son's who does carpentry work this weekend and mentioned to him that I didn't think Robertson heads were very common south of the border and he looked at me like I was feeding him a story.

Thanks for all the replies I have forwarded all of them to him to set the record straight.
 

As said before I mainly use torx T-25 screws but some of the shorter ones come in T-20 and cabinet head torx in T-15. I've pulled some out of treated wood that have been in for 15 years and they come right out. I have occasionally got some soft drivers that will strip out after a while especially if not engaged straight up and down but I look for the better quality ones.

The only other thing I use are the hex head type barn screws. At least those don't strip out. Have an electric impact wrench for putting barn tin on roofs and siding.

I used the square head stainless or aluminum (I forget) screws that were recommended for a composite deck going in treated lumber underneath about 15 years ago. Had to remove a number of boards last summer to change things around. A lot of those square head screws either stripped out or broke off. Use vise grips to get the stripped ones out or just pried the board up screw and all. Now I need to go look to see if the screws were the tapered Robertsons or the straight square ones. And then look to see which bit I was using as I didn't know there was a difference. As I recall, the bits had a taper and if the screws were not the tapered ones then that may splain things. Will check them later today.

I just know that Phillips will automatically strip out either going in or coming out of treated lumber unless using extreme down force to keep them seated and then go slow and use a start and stop with the drill to maintain the bite and avoid cam out when hitting a tight spot.
 
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