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Ford 8N nightmare

B

bigdieselman

New User
In need your help. I m working on a Ford 8N with a side distributor we cannot get the engine to time correctly Each cylinder has 120lbs compression and when number 1 cylinder is on top dead center the rotor points away from number one cylinder on distributor cap We have done all the adjustments on the distributor , loosing all the bolts and it will not line up to number one when the points are starting to open. It will pop occasionally but will not run, I tried turning the distributor in both directions, Any idea I could use your help. Could the distributor be worn inside?
 
I'm not a Ford man, but sounds like you need to pull the distributor and line it up. When the cylinder is on TDC is it on the compression stroke?
 
TDC can be on the exhaust stroke, or compression. Pull all the plugs. Put a cotton ball (fit mostly outside) or cork in #1 plug hole. Turn the engine by hand until the cotton/cork is blown out. Put a soda straw into the #1 hole, Or shine an LED light in the hole to watch #1 rise as you continue to turn the engine. When it is near the top, the timing mark will close to or on TDC. Turn so it is. Now check rotor position. If it is 180 off, pull it and turn it 180 to be correct. Time is TDC static. Jim
 
Very simple first watch which way the rotor turns. Next get #1 cylinder on TDC and look at which nipple on the cap the rotor goes to then put #1 plug wire there and then go from there with the 1,2,4,3 firing order. Just because a cap says #1 on it means nothing other then it was that way when factory but the distibutor could have been pull and in turn not put back in as it was when built. BTDT and fix them many times
 
Having all the info may help. You say you are working on it. What was the reason it needed work? What exactly has been done to it so far? Was it running before you worked on it? Has the distributor been removed since it last ran? Have the plug wires been moved/changed since it last ran?

#1 (or any cylinder in a four stroke engine) will be at TDC on the compression stroke and the exhaust stroke. The rotor pointing to #1 log wire terminal in the cap, or points opening, needs to be on the compression stroke. If it is on the exhaust stroke, timing will be out 180 degrees.
 
Take the distributor back out of the engine. Take the # 1 plug out and put your finger over the hole while someone bumps the starter button. When the piston comes up and blows your finger off the plug hole stop. Reinstall the distributor with the rotor pointing in the right direction. If it does not go all the down easily just, hold it down and bump the starter slightly once more and it will seat down. Put the cap on and make sure you have it wired correctly. That is all there is to getting it in right position. "Beware" it has to be set on the compression stroke. If not it will be timed 180 degrees off and will pop back. If you are just using a mark on the front pulley it is easy to get it 180 degrees out.
 
Someone will disagree but here goes. Bring number 1 up to top dead center on the compression stroke. Then look where the rotor is pointing,that is now #1 plug wire. THe engine doesn't care where #1 is on the cap, as long as the rotor is lined up with the post on the cap that has a wire going to #1 plug. Wire the firing order as always using your new #1 a starting point.
 
"Someone will disagree but here goes. Bring number 1 up to top dead center on the compression stroke. Then look where the rotor is pointing,that is now #1 plug wire. THe engine doesn't care where #1 is on the cap, as long as the rotor is lined up with the post on the cap that has a wire going to #1 plug. Wire the firing order as always using your new #1 a starting point."

Someone may, but I will not. I have had many Fords where number
one on the cap was not where it should be. They run fine.
He said his is an 8N, so it should be 1-2-4-3 CCW from there.
 
Try to turn the rotor with the distributor in.

It should turn a few degrees ccw and spring back, but it should not be possible to turn it further. Possibly the roll pin is sheared that holds the gear on, or the cam gear is stripped. Crank the engine through while watching the rotor. It should turn continuously without stopping.

How did this happen? It can not get out of time unless the distributor was removed or the wires rearranged, or there is a problem with the drive gears. Was the rotor changed? Compare it carefully with the original.
 

I've used a short wood dowel or a pencil in the plug hole to help get a cylinder at TDC.
 
Im fixing it for a friend, he said it ran very poorly, so I dont know what he did, but Im a good diesel man. I pulled the didtributor out 5 times, checked the gear, when #1 is TDC the rotor will never line up with #1 on the cao when the points are starting to open, never. could the gear train be worn in front of the engine ? Its side dristrubutor
 
(quoted from post at 05:52:40 01/10/21) Im fixing it for a friend, he said it ran very poorly, so I dont know what he did, but Im a good diesel man. I pulled the didtributor out 5 times, checked the gear, when #1 is TDC the rotor will never line up with #1 on the cao when the points are starting to open, never. could the gear train be worn in front of the engine ? Its side dristrubutor
Click to expand...

Can't he tell you what he did before he asked you to work on it?

Have you confirmed you are installing it with #1 at TDC on the compression stroke, not just going by the timing marks are lined up?

Given you can reposition the rotor by moving the mesh of the distributor gear with the drive gear a tooth at a time if needed (when you pull the distributor out), and the clamp adjustment around the distributor housing allows minor adjustments from there, I can't see why the rotor will never line up at the proper time the points start to open, if all the parts are correct. Have the cap, rotor, and/or points been replaced? If so did the replacements exactly match the old ones? Is the rotor button tight on the shaft? Is there a clip on the shaft that the rotor slides on over?
 
I went thru the same thing with my neighbor's 8N a few years ago. The distributor shaft has a helical cut gear which causes the shaft to turn a few degrees when you pull it out or push it back in. You have to compensate for that when you position the rotor with the distributor pulled out of the engine. It took me 2 tries to get it right after I wrapped my head around what needed to be done.
 
bigdieselman, I don;t know if you are aware that there are two sets of tinning marks on the flywheel 180 across from each other. viewed by removing the little cover on the right side of the bell housing.Remove #1 plug and holding your finger in the hole ,then with a helper have him turn the PTO shaft with it engaged counter clock wise looking from the rear.Using like a 14" pipe wrench.(The easiest way if you don;t have a hand crank)When you feel compression ,have him stop, then look in the rimming hole with a light and have him turn till you see TDC line up on the flywheel pointer.Use a white paint mark on the flywheel so you know its on compression stroke for the next time if needed.Remove the dist cap and see what tower the rotor is pointing to.If it is not pointing to #1,you can ether move the wires in the cap #1#2#4#3 or pull the dist if not pointing to #1 tower and move the shaft to point to #1 tower.
 
Gary, I agree with you on 99% of what you say on here, but I really like my 8N that has been in the family since new and still gets used at least every week and sometimes several times a week.
Best logging tractor on our hills and gets places that most tractors won't go.
And with an over running pto clutch, it will run a brush hog where a lot of other tractors won't go.
Richard, your friend in NW SC
 
Yea a lot of people have gotten good service out of them. I can't imagine an 8N would go where a WD45 AC wouldn't go though.NF M Farmall tractors used to be the tractor of choice around here before skidders came a long,NF will snake around in the woods where WF can't get.
 
We have both the M and the 9n ford and the M would be stuck in a woods in about 2 seconds if you tried to take it where we run that 9n. The 9n almost walks on mud and gets used 100-1 over the farmalls.
 

A side mount should have two timing marks on the flywheel 180 deg. apart. A N is a little difficult to time my compression but doable. You can not see the piston its offset quite a bit from the spark plug hole you cannot fell it are see it : (... You feel the compression coming up on TDC then align the timing mark on the flywheel...

You can get high tech... To do a front mount if you want it dead nutz you will have to get high tech with some conversions.





https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1399069&highlight=tdc


More info...

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1313955&highlight=tdc

The question how did it end up out of time.
 
Does the tractor have a flat head or overhead valve engine? The reason I'm asking is you said the dist. was on the side which would be an overhead valve engine, a flat head usually had front mount dist. with a coil as big as the dist. mounted to it, but also could have a dist. or magneto using a right angle drive mounted to the right front of the engine which would could be referred to as side mounted, the magneto static times different, could you post a picture of the dist. ?
 
The late 1950 to 1952 Ford 8N had the side mount distributor. Some tiem in April or May of 1950 they went from the front mount to the 5 nipple side mount distributor
 

Just looked them up. Leave it to Fix Or Repair Daily FORD to number their tractors bass ackwards with the 8N being a newer model than the 9N.
 
Its not bassackwards.
9N started in 1939, 2N in 1942, 8N in 1948.
Last digit of the year they started was the model number.
 
(quoted from post at 14:06:15 01/10/21) Does the tractor have a flat head or overhead valve engine? The reason I'm asking is you said the dist. was on the side which would be an overhead valve engine, a flat head usually had front mount dist. with a coil as big as the dist. mounted to it, but also could have a dist. or magneto using a right angle drive mounted to the right front of the engine which would could be referred to as side mounted, the magneto static times different, could you post a picture of the dist. ?
Click to expand...

gbs, the OP stated that his tractor is an 8N which means that it is a flat head.
 
(quoted from post at 18:34:28 01/10/21) The model came from the first year thy came out. 9N was a 1939 model 2N 1942, and 8N 1948 so the model came from the first year made
Click to expand...

Ok. Thanks. Good thing they didn't come out in 1940 or 1950 or their tractors would be zeros.
 
showcrop, the reason I asked the questions that I did is because some of the distributor and magneto designs of that era resembled each other and the timing sequence for a distributor is different from a magneto. From what little I know about the N series tractors they uses a front mounted dist. and mag. Also on the late 8N's some had front mounted vertical dist. or mag., sometimes the NAA gets confused with the other N series is the reason I asked about the overhead valve engine.

bigdieselman, have a look at this timing video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YziGkA5wPbY
 
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