Hand cranking an distibutor ignition tractor

bjb in TX from Ne · Dec 17, 2020

I just got my new JD 40 tractor home, and I have a hand crank for it. While I am aware of cranking a tractor with a magneto (and have done so on my AC B and AC WC), is it possible to hand start an distributor/coil ignition tractor, without breaking my wrists? I know the impulse on a mag is set to start engaging before TDC to wind the spring and fire around TDC. As long as the distributor is time properly to TDC will that also work, safely?

The picture is how I found it in the barn. Rusty, but so far, everything is breaking loose with minimal effort and the engine turns over and seems to be in good condition internally.

2late4me · Dec 17, 2020

Can be done safely, but you will need a battery to supply power to ignition

JMOR · Dec 17, 2020

(quoted from post at 13:22:21 12/17/20) I just got my new JD 40 tractor home, and I have a hand crank for it. While I am aware of cranking a tractor with a magneto (and have done so on my AC B and AC WC), is it possible to hand start an distributor/coil ignition tractor, without breaking my wrists? I know the impulse on a mag is set to start engaging before TDC to wind the spring and fire around TDC. As long as the distributor is time properly to TDC will that also work, safely?

The picture is how I found it in the barn. Rusty, but so far, everything is breaking loose with minimal effort and the engine turns over and seems to be in good condition internally.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto67293.jpg">

afest to have timing slightly retarded.

jm. · Dec 17, 2020

Would be easier and safer to air up the tires and have someone give you a pull.

Bob Bancroft · Dec 17, 2020

The distributor has an advance mechanism built in. Ideally that would give you near TDC spark at cranking/idle, and near 25 degrees advanced wide open. BUT, timing has to be adjusted correctly, and the mechanism has to be working properly. In my damp NY climate, I have seen way too many advance mechanisms rusted/set up. It's an item almost no one maintains.

I agree with the towing. Or why not hook up a battery and try it?

Dean · Dec 17, 2020

Yes, it can be done but engines with distributor ignitions do not start by hand cranking as well as do engines with impulse magnitoes.

Dean

teddy52food · Dec 17, 2020

Why not????? We hand crank start my Super C when it is too cold to use the starter. Full voltage to the coil gives a hot spark.

David G · Dec 17, 2020

That is entirely a false statement.

Distributors provide the same voltage regardless of RPM. Magneto's need the impulse function so they can provide enough voltage for adequate spark during low RPM's. A secondary function of a magneto impulse is spark retard during cranking.

rustred · Dec 17, 2020

Hope your going to oil the cyl’s first and check for stuck valves. Distributor is just as safe cranking by hand, BUT make sure the timing is set to spec. First. Looks like it had a 30 year sleep.

BarnyardEngineering · Dec 17, 2020

Distributors provide the same spark regardless of RPM, but the spark isn't as "hot" as one from a good magneto. At least that is the conventional "old man wisdom" on the subject. Maybe an electronic ignition can, but an old points ignition just doesn't have the same pizazz as one of those tractor magnetos. Hot spark is what you need to ignite that rich mixture at cold startup.

bjb in TX from Ne · Dec 17, 2020

I have never tried to cranks start one without a mag. In my head it makes sense it should work. I just wanted to make sure there were no safety reasons (eg kickback).

bjb in TX from Ne · Dec 17, 2020

Too much was missing in the field, but the tires did air up and still holding air even after probably 30+ years.

JMOR · Dec 17, 2020

"Distributors provide the same voltage regardless of RPM"

nah

Dean · Dec 17, 2020

No it isn't.

Dean

rustred · Dec 17, 2020

i find that hard to believe . i have been starting our old w6 with a distributor since before 10 years old with a crank. plus many many other
tractors with mags. and distributors. w-12's w-30's wd40's w6's w9's wd9's oliver88's, massey 44's allis wd45. sure the mag ones i like
better for the crank as they hardly need to be turned. but as far as the spark strongness i dont think there is a difference. i have watched
sparkplugs fire lots of times from each set up and dont see any difference. when the tractor is tuned to spec they start easy.

Dean · Dec 17, 2020

Didn't say that it couldn't be done but an impulse magneto makes it easier.

Indeed, one can almost make an engine equipped with an impulse magneto start itself. One cannot do that with an engine equipped with a Kettering ignition system.

Dean

tomturkey · Dec 17, 2020

JMOR is correct, do not advance the timing at the distributor, if that spark hits that plug when your pull is at 9 ' clock instead
of at 11 when your hand is sliding off the handle, your elbow your shoulder your whole arm is gonna know it.I tried crank starting a
1950 Case VAC. It had been running and had died, battery was low and would not crank it over hardly, I tried to crank it by hand, no
good results so I advance the distributor a bit. Felt like lightning went thru my arm when that motor caught and kicked back. I
won't hand crank anything. But thats just me. gobble

Mike(NEOhio) · Dec 17, 2020

I've started my E3 and E4 with a crank. Sometimes the 6v just doesn't spin the six very well. It seems like just bringing it over compression is enough to light it up. I think it gets a hotter spark without the starter draw. Started my AC G that way for years. Yeah, easier to pull it but I usually don't have an assistant.

RickieBlue · Dec 17, 2020

Put your thumb under the crank and pull up, if it kicks, it will throw your hand clear..been there done that. Make sure no one is standing on the side of the crank. If it throws the crank, they might get hit.

rustred · Dec 17, 2020

i have started my W-30 many times also just by giving the belt pulley a flip by hand. bet no one has done that.

James Howell · Dec 17, 2020

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]make sure the timing is set to spec[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Agree.

John M · Dec 17, 2020

Wanna bet? Used to do that with an H and a M.

Dave41A · Dec 17, 2020

You're going to need a battery on it anyway to provide electricity to the coil, so you may luck out and find the starter is still working, too. That would be the best of both worlds. I agree with the others on timing and looking into the possibility of a "yankee jump start" by pulling with another tractor as alternatives to hand cranking. You can jump with 12 volts directly to the starter, too. The full 6V goes to the coil, while the starter gets 12. Spins it really fast.

I started my '41 Farmall A for years by hand crank, but it is magneto and the magneto impulse trip provides a nice safety feature.

Dean · Dec 17, 2020

My uncle farmed with an F-30 until 1986.

I've watched him start it many times with slight pressure on the crank after setting things up as they need to be.

Never saw him start it with the pulley though.

Dean

teddy52food · Dec 18, 2020

My Super C would start with the battery ign when nothing else would in the cold. The
magneto's impulse get stiff & don't snap like when it is warm.

teddy52food · Dec 18, 2020

I have tractors with mags that won't start in the cold when the C with battery ign will start. Also the H with battery ign will go too. Still 6 volt.

Lyndon - AB · Dec 18, 2020

(quoted from post at 16:09:03 12/17/20) i have started my W-30 many times also just by giving the belt pulley a flip by hand. bet no one has done that.

I'll meet your bet on that one, George! I used to do that from time to time with my Minneapolis U when I still had it. Didn't take much charge in the battery and it would fire.

Queue the safety crowd having a meltdown. Lol.

Fordy20 · Dec 18, 2020

Dad had a Farmall B that he would crank - mostly winter when the battery was low. Did it for years without incident until just once when he tried to "spin" it. It backfired and the crank hit the top of his hand and broke his hand. Stand on the side and pull up only - like he did after that. Think that's the only time it backfired but it only takes one time.

Rich'sToys · Dec 18, 2020

When I was growing up we had an MT that seemed to be always having generator problems and a dead battery. Dad used to hand crank it all the time.

Hand cranking an distibutor ignition tractor

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