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Diesel additive

T

Tracy Brown

Member
I read on a post a few days ago about some adding 2 cycle oil to their fuel. Some added kerosene. Maybe some for older machines built when diesel had more lubricant in it, maybe some for cold weather. School me what you like, why you add it, and ratio you add it. I use a small tank (75 G with hand pump) and thinking of adding something when I refill it. Thx
 
Use good premium diesel fuel. Winter diesel in winter (Arctic is best) Change the filters regularly, check the sediment bulb, use a block heater for starting, use a charger on start mode and don't look back. Bill from central Siberia.
 
Kerosene is really pure oil with high cost, and near zero additives. It is (opinion) useless for that purpose. ATF and 2 stroke oil are favorites on this board, with 2 stroke in the majority. Amounts will vary among TYers, a 8oz in 20 gallons would do me.
If you live where it gets to 20 below if so, a anti gelling agent is usually called for as the fuel is changed to #1, or a blend, to keep the fuel from becoming a solid. In really cold temps, using the anti gelling product is still needed. Jim
 
Here in Minnesota you need to pay attention to temps dropping below 20 degrees f, and you need to get that right -before- the temps drop.

I typically use Power Service, but any of the anti gel additives will work.

I have used kerosene in a need to go now situation.

I’ve blended in #1 diesel when I was running more winter hours.

Here in Minnesota they blend in 2-20% biodiesel from soy oil mostly which is all the lubricity needed, I wouldn’t bother adding anything else.

Paul
 
Bill has it about right. I just don't use the charger on the battery. The block heater is the cold weather ticket though. I don't treat fuel. If you don't buy fuel in Fl and go to MT with it you will be fine. Good fuel from a reputable supplier will be fine out of the nozzle.
 
I try to get #1 for cold weather, I put 2 oz of 2 cycle oil per 5 gallons in the summer for lubrication, and I put a little biocide in any fuel that's going to sit very long. Kerosene will thin #2 diesel for winter use, but it's very expensive. I don't use our tractor much in the winter, but If I need it I want it to go.
 
well the thing is winter blend of diesel has wax removed so it dont gell up. wax is the lube. so it is a benefit to add some 2 cycle oil to the diesel. running winter fuel in the summer you are burning more fuel and getting less lube out of it. even adding some to any gas engine helps with upper cyl lube such as cyl's and guides and valves. also when summer blend of diesel jells up it was common practice to add coal oil to the diesel to thin it out so it dont gell. i have seen many times when i went to the storage tank at - 30 and -40 the summer diesel would not run out the hose .also some conditioners such as kleen flow are dry so you dont want to use too much as i was told its hard on injector tips. i have a few pails of dipetan diesel conditioner here and been using that stuff. its about like thin hyd. oil. myself i dont believe in atf in injection pumps or injectors. there is all kind of additives in it for making automatic trans clutches grab. so why do i want to run that through my pumps with tight tolerances. mystery oil is a good thing to use also as it was made for engines. also it was common practice years ago to throw in a quart of engine oil to each barrel of gas for extra lube.
 
There is no clutch material in an injection pump or injectors for the atf to act upon .
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Bought some two cycle oil the other day thought I’d try it yt corps of engineers can’t be wrong right
cvphoto66944.jpg
 
ya i know but i dont trust atf . use engine oil before that stuff. that stuff u have looks like for only warm weather. maybe it is , cant drive your boat around at -25, it says marine.
 
I'm not going to debate anyone who thinks modern diesel fuel needs more lubricity than they already have. It's funny how some people think it needs this or that, or this much of this or that... I would be a little concerned about using Kerosene though, especially if you are concerned about lubricity. Kerosene does not have the additives of diesel fuel, like lubricity additive.

There are specific additives to combat gelling, and most of those also include lubricity and maybe even a cetane booster. They should be more cost effective than mixing Kerosene or other home brews.

Diesel typically starts to gel around 10-15*F. If you want protection to minus 15*F using Kerosene, you would want to mix at least 50% Kerosene, that's a lot if you ask me. A general rule of thumb is every 10% of Kerosene lowers the gel point about 5*F.
 
Just to be clear, folks add kerosene to diesel for a different reason than they add two-stroke oil. Kerosene, aka #1 diesel, is a lighter distillate than the standard #2 diesel. It's pretty much immune to gelling, and when you add it to #2 it reduces gelling. But #1 fuel is more expensive than #2, has less energy per gallon and and less lubricity. If you check your operator's manual, you'll probably find it recommends using #2 rather than #1, particularly in the summer.

Most diesel fuel is seasonally formulated to resist gelling in cold weather. But there's a risk of gelling if you have old fuel in your tank, or maybe your dealer doesn't sell a lot of fuel. When in doubt, the safest thing is to add an anti-gel additive like Howes or Power Service. These contain chemicals that inhibit the formation of paraffin crystals, but don't adversely affect the lubricity of the fuel as does kerosene. Simply add it to your fuel at the manufacturer's recommended ratio.

Adding two-stroke oil (or any oil, for that matter) isn't going to reduce gelling. But, in theory, it will increase lubricity which is good for your injector pump. It's pretty difficult to prove whether or not it works, since you would have to have two identical engines running on identical fuel (one with the additive and one without) for thousands of hours to see a difference. It seems to me you would have to add a LOT of two-stroke oil to see a difference, and the stuff is not cheap. Even if it does improve injector pump life, it seems unlikely it would justify the additional expense over the life of an engine.
 
Tracy Brown, you opened the can of worms! Lol. Now blow their minds and tell them in the south we don't have summer and winter fuel. We stay home all 3-4 freezing days!! Lol
 


Tracy, 2X what Mark B said. You are are asking a question about two totally different situations at the same time so your answers will have to be all over the map and totally inconclusive. I suggest that you ask one today and the other tomorrow if you want meaningful information.
 
Agreed and the mfgrs. of such tell you so. Memory is trying to tell me it's because the difference in loads on the engines for the two different types of jobs. One may be the air cooled variable temps, other maybe intermittent operation, or maxed out RPMs on air cooled when running.
 
As far as I know, any diesel fuel sold in the state has to be ULSD. That was phased in several years ago. I use Cenex Premium diesel fuel known as Ruby Fieldmaster. I run my storage tanks empty before scheduling a delivery and right before delivery siphon everything out of the tanks. I use that fuel to burn stumps and brush in the winter. I also install new waterblock filters on the storage tanks. After delivery I let the tanks sit unused for several days. This fall it turned out to be a month. My tractors all have fuel filters next to the engine and the tractor I use most of the time has the fuel filters close to the underhood exhaust system so the filters stay warm during use. The combine has a fuel filter underneath the fuel tank far away from any heat source so as a precaution against any possible gelling I do use Power Service 911 in the combine tank. Any time an externally mounted fuel filter might be exposed to freezing temperatures it's a good idea to use an anti-gelling additive. The Tractor I use for snow removal always gets winter diesel. The CENEX Ruby fieldmaster I get is #2. Claims are it has demulsifiers, detergents, lubricity improvers, corrosion inhibitors, storage stabilizers, cetane improvers and it also claims to be "soy enhanced".
 
X2 Mark,very well explained.
FWIW I always add 2 cycle oil.You can buy it by the gallon for about $12 or buy the smaller containers from walmart pretty cheap.




Rock
 
yes, thats what i was saying. plus the fuels are blended at the refinery's once winter comes. you basically dont need to worry about gelling. i never ever had winter fuel jell up in my vehicle when i filled up at the pumps, and been out in some pretty cold days, and been driving diesels for close to forty years. plus the fuel will also warm up in your vehicle due to it returning to tank from the injectors. be suprised how warm the fuel gets.
so the ones worried about winter fuel gelling, slim chance of that. look at all the diesels on the road and dont see any stalled on the hyway due to fuel gelling.
 
I add a quart of ATF to each diesel tractor twice a year. My diesel pump shop recommended it to help keep the pump clean inside. He claims the ATF is full of solvents that help keep the pump metering valves from sticking. I had a customer with a 2440 with a Rosa Master pump that called and complained about lack of power. The tractor had new filters but had sat for awhile. I told him to add ATF and he laughed at me but did add two quarts and went back to using it. He called back and said it kept running better and better. I have a friend on the east coast that his shop recommends the same thing. They say on a tractor that has been setting to fill the fuel filters with ATF and pump the ATF thru the pump and let it set for a day or two before trying to run it. Now for cold weather we buy winterized diesel from our supplier and still add some Power Service when it gets cold but we need to go every day no matter what to feed cattle. Tom
 
Well, the time I used kerosene in my NH and Ford was the fall a bull reached over the pen wall and ripped a wound in my abdomen. Neighbor had to harvest for me. My tractors were parked and full of summer diesel, at that time 10% bio. I didn’t run the tractors as I planned, and wasn’t up to fall maintenance either.

As I got good enough to do stuff, winter stayed fairly mild and no snow to move, cattle were grazing cornstalks, so I hardly used my little loader tractor or the bale mover tractor.

Then the last half of winter hit, we got below minus 20 for lows for a long period, day long strong winds, snow that drifted.

I needed to move snow, and I needed to move round bales. Literally over night change.

On the farm I only get #2, #1 is special request as is any type of blend. With one bulk fuel tank, I don’t want dry fuel here for summer work.

Also use #2 as furnace fuel to heat the house, tank is in the basement so it keeps flowing.

Anyhow, I had quite a bit of Power Service in the tractors, but the summer bio was reacting to the rapid and extreme temp change. We really went from highs in the 30s to lows in the minus teens over night. And then it stayed below zero for days. One of the quickest temp changes I recall, and long duration, 30mph sustained winds.

I went to the service station in town that handles diesel fuel to get a winterized blend. They had a bag over the handle, their pump gelled up. So much for them supplying anything winterized....

Went to Menards and got 4 gallons of kerosene.

With some hot water on the lines and a magnetic heater on the filter after changing it, and a couple gallons of kerosene that got me one tractor running so I could move some snow and feed the cattle.

Also used furnace fuel so fast I was running the tank empty. I was able to bypass the filter on my bulk Diesel tank and mix 1/4 kerosene with the #2 and get something thin enough to put in the furnace tank and keep the house heated. Didn’t want the delivery guy to be coming out in those tough conditions, and of course it was a Friday afternoon.....

So, kerosene can work as an additive, and sure saved my beef when lots of other options mentioned here failed me.

Drove past many semis on the side of the road that week. Even the northern diesel pumps were not prepared for that temp swing.

Paul
 
WELLLLLLLl not totally true on how warm the fuel is returning to the tank. Years ago this was the case on SOME . The old Detroits and Cummins returned warm fuel the best as the fuel went thru the heads from the pump to the unit injector then back into the head and on to the return line then the tank. Macks had a shell we say and external pump and lines to each injector and external return and would be the first to drop kick ya in cold weather, Same as the old Cat and I H powered construction equipment and farm equipment . Old semis with the two main engines of the day use to have a bottom crossover line to equalize fuel levels in the two tanks and only drawed and returned fuel to one side it wa NOT uncommon that one tank was nice and warm and the other tank gelled , that was easy to spot as it was covered in snow and ice while the return side was not . While as a kid in the OLD days working for a construction company if we had any major winter work the first of Oct we would get in a tanker load of #1 and he would dump half the load in one tank and the other in the other tank as there was two 10000 gallon tanks in the ground at the shop . during the normal season the company ran the best fuel money could by at the time and that was Sohio Diesel supreme , everybody knew about this diesel it was the top dog for power and you would pull the best fuel economy out of it and at a glance you knew back then what was in your tank it was RED way before the idiots made red fuel off road . back in those days a tanker load was usually between 6 and 7000 gallons . Now today in my part of the world they start peddling WINTER FUELS by the first of OCT in both gas and diesel . Now if you have left over SUMMER blend setting in the tanks depending on the weather you would be wise to add and anti gel and MIX it not just DUMP it in like my buddy did and except it to work as it will go to the bottom and DO NOTHING . Only once did i ever had a gel problem and that was 78 when i had to pull my semi out of the nice warm shop to get some other stuff in that we did want to start during the blizzard and it did have winter blend in it and it still gelled.
 
(quoted from post at 07:29:37 12/14/20) Tracy Brown, you opened the can of worms! Lol. Now blow their minds and tell them in the south we don't have summer and winter fuel. We stay home all 3-4 freezing days!! Lol
Click to expand...

And you guys are probably the only ones plowing in January to get ready for that cotton planting.

We had some terraces put in here in KS at the first of the summer. Plan was to do them during the winter since it never did really freeze hard but then we got so much moisture that it was too wet until the end of May.

We have the Coop NCRA refinery here in town. Now CHS. All the tanker trucks pull up to the same pump bays. If it is for a Shell station, they dump in the special Shell additives. Same for Texaco and so on for all the special brands. For the basic convenience stores, I think they just add a little water (lol).

All the diesel pumps are a choice of dyed or undyed. No other choices although I think some do start getting in #1 sometime in October or so.
 
I didnt read all the post so sorry if this was brought. I agree that 2 cycle oil is probably not a bad idea especially on old pumps. I have used atf for years as I was told it was made from what they removed from diesel. True or not I have never had a problem. I have had some old timers say it made the difference of the pump working or not. .I also use power service additive in all my diesel. May try some 2 stroke oil.
 
I wish you would come tell my engines they shouldn’t have gelled on winter fuel from the pumps bought in January.
 
Well I guess to clarify, my interest was to lubricate the pump my older machines. It doesn't get that cold in North MS (should have had location in original post). I have a 55G drum of atf so I may start dumping a gallon or so in my 75G tank when I get it filled up each time. I do thank you all for the input.
 
DOES ULSD HAVE ANY LUBRICITY I STILL BLAME IT FOR MY MASSEY FERGUSEN 85 INJECTION PUMP FAILURE I TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM ON ROAD PUMP DIESEL AND TRY TO BUY HOME HEATING OIL MIXED WITH A SMALL BOTTLE OF 2CYCLE OIL AM I WRONG?
 
> From the label .

Yes, that particular oil claims to meet both water-cooled TC-W3 and air-cooled JASO FB/API TC specs. The problem is that JASO FB and API TC are pretty much obsolete specs, and current water-cooled oil has deviated a great deal from how oil was formulated to meet earlier specs. What you want these days for air-cooled two strokes is an oil that meets JASO FD or ISO-L-EGD. You will not find a TC-W3 oil that meets these specs because they are mutually incompatible with the TC-W3 spec.
 
(quoted from post at 17:00:12 12/14/20) We had almost the whole fleet of 17 trucks gelled up on pump fuel bought in January
Click to expand...
Back around 2003 I was putting a lot of miles on my MB diesel and would pull in to the same Mobil station to fuel up (half diesel pump, half kero) one day when I stopped the owner said "we got a fuel drop this week and the driver was talking up their "new" additive package, guaranteed not to gell so you don't have to mickey mouse around with the kero anymore." He filled it with diesel and the next morning it was 28 below zero. The car was in the garage with the block heater plugged in gelled up tight, 2hours with the salamander before it would start. Never again.
 
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