Tractor Restoration questions.

Hello

This year I have really gotten antique tractor fever. After I got done fixing my great grandpa's Super MTA and asked a few questions on this website (Thank you to everyone that helped me) I started looking for a new project. When I was doing research on the international MD and John Deere R I stumbled across a Tractor restoration competition though FFA. I talked to my FFA advisor and I am lined up to do it for 2021. I bought a 1938 international Farmall F20 to do this restoration. It is in running condition but leaks a lot of oil. I am going to do a Full restoration on it. No one in my family has done a tractor restoration so I have a couple of questions.

When you are doing a restoration what do you recommend for keeping the parts separate when I take it apart? would you recommend tubs or something else for a sorting system?

is there a couple of must does before I start taking it apart.

I talked to the previous owner today and he recommend starting with the engine and work my way back. Where do you recommend where to start?

Thank you for your help.

Organization. Engine trans and diff. Should be kept in separate spots.
Plus take pictures. Plus have it as clean as u can. I just hate working on a
grease bucket. Don’t know your shop or how much area u have for storing
parts so that’s your dept. even a parts book for reference and a service
manual you would need for specs.

I have a parts, service and owners manual for the tractor.

Rustred is right, the cleaner the better. I use small bags for small parts, nuts, bolts, and a black marker to label them. Sometimes muffin pans are good for small screws or other small parts. If you have assemblies, lay them out in the order that they go back in.

I would recommend a dedicated camera with a big card. Take
lots of before and during disassembly pictures . Helps when you are
putting it back together if you have several before pictures for
guidance. I wish you well!!!!!

Thank you to everyone. I am hoping to start this weekend on the project.

(quoted from post at 19:43:33 11/25/20) Hello

This year I have really gotten antique tractor fever. After I got done fixing my great grandpa's Super MTA and asked a few questions on this website (Thank you to everyone that helped me) I started looking for a new project. When I was doing research on the international MD and John Deere R I stumbled across a Tractor restoration competition though FFA. I talked to my FFA advisor and I am lined up to do it for 2021. I bought a 1938 international Farmall F20 to do this restoration. It is in running condition but leaks a lot of oil. I am going to do a Full restoration on it. No one in my family has done a tractor restoration so I have a couple of questions.

When you are doing a restoration what do you recommend for keeping the parts separate when I take it apart? would you recommend tubs or something else for a sorting system?

is there a couple of must does before I start taking it apart.

I talked to the previous owner today and he recommend starting with the engine and work my way back. Where do you recommend where to start?

Thank you for your help.

Click to expand...

First of all, let's define "a full restoration".

NOT sure you want to go there (at least by some definitions of FULL restoration), would probably cost 10 to 20 times the resale value of the tractor.

(quoted from post at 20:55:34 11/25/20)

(quoted from post at 19:43:33 11/25/20) Hello

This year I have really gotten antique tractor fever. After I got done fixing my great grandpa's Super MTA and asked a few questions on this website (Thank you to everyone that helped me) I started looking for a new project. When I was doing research on the international MD and John Deere R I stumbled across a Tractor restoration competition though FFA. I talked to my FFA advisor and I am lined up to do it for 2021. I bought a 1938 international Farmall F20 to do this restoration. It is in running condition but leaks a lot of oil. I am going to do a Full restoration on it. No one in my family has done a tractor restoration so I have a couple of questions.

When you are doing a restoration what do you recommend for keeping the parts separate when I take it apart? would you recommend tubs or something else for a sorting system?

is there a couple of must does before I start taking it apart.

I talked to the previous owner today and he recommend starting with the engine and work my way back. Where do you recommend where to start?

Thank you for your help.

Click to expand...

First of all, let's define "a full restoration".

NOT sure you want to go there (at least by some definitions of FULL restoration), would probably cost 10 to 20 times the resale value of the tractor.

Click to expand...

Hi Wore out

When I said a full restoration I what I meant was that I am going to take the tractor completely apart and judge the wear of the parts and replace as needed. I will replace the seals and gaskets (that is what it needs most)

I appreciate your concern about the price tag of this project, Wore Out. We understand that we will not get our money back if we do sell this tractor. However, this project is going to be a fun challenge for me, my family, and a couple of my friends. To me it is more about the memories made, the lessons learned and the history of ag that we can preserve with this project.

I apologize if i mess lead you when I said full restoration.

I was taught that certain parts should be returned to the same place they were removed from such as valve lifters, push rods, rocker arms, pistons and rods, sleeves
unless replaced as they have an established wear pattern. Also some drive line parts that are duplicated should be returned to where removed from as the same holds true.
Others may agree or disagree and that is there choice, however this is what I was taught and I hope is information you are looking for. Best wishes and a High grade on
your project.

If you are sure about doing a full restoration, go ahead and start taking it apart.

But if you are just going for the major problems and make it look good, (my recommendation) get it out and drive it around. Take a work sheet and make notes. Put it through the paces, listen for noises, note leaks. What you don't want is to miss something, put it back together, then have to go back in. Start taking before pictures.

Hopefully you have a heated shop with a good slab floor. Trying to work on dirt or gravel is very dangerous! You will also need a parts washing machine. Some heavy duty, wide stance jack stands, a good bottle jack, some 4x4 cribbing, a cherry picker or a frame hoist, an engine stand, a good solid work bench with a vise. Assuming you have the basic hand tools.

Some folding tables are really nice, a place to lay out parts. As each component is removed, it needs to be before and after photographed, cleaned, inspected, and labeled. Ziplok bags and wire on tags work well. Any damaged or worn parts need to be set aside and get the repair/replacement process started. Once the component had been sorted and labeled, store the parts in tubs to clear the table.

About parts... At the tractor's age, there will not be many aftermarket parts available. But if you have a choice, source NOS or used factory parts. Use as few aftermarket parts as possible. The quality is just not the same. If you are going for a true restoration, stick with the original electrical system, don't upgrade. If you get everything right, it will work.


Paint and body work... Trust me, you do not want to do paint and body work in the same shop that you do the rest of your work! It is nasty! You can paint the castings in the shop, but best make arrangements to use someones paint and body shop for the sheet metal, or sub it out. It will look better, and you won't have sanding dust and overspray covering your work area.

Keep in touch, read your shop manual, don't be afraid to ask, and don't get discouraged!

There will be setbacks, just part of it. Be careful not to put the entire project on hold. Make it a point to do something on it every day, otherwise it can come to a stop. Much harder to get started again if it does!

You are correct . And this will not be specified in any service manual as manuals are for mechanics to do the procedure and specs. Not to preach about the rule of thumb things u should already know.

First of all get it just as clean as you can before you start. No need to contaminate your work area with a lot of greasy dirt. The best way to start this is from underneath with a putty knife screw driver and gasket scraper BEFORE washing. doing it when it is wet is NASTY.

Second, don't worry about anyone's definition of what you are going to do. That is only a word.

A parts washer is very good to have but a bucket with a few inches of fuel and brush and a telescoping magnet can work too.


Find a reputable automotive machine shop for help with cleaning, evaluating, making precise measurements, and advising you on what parts need to be replaced, what machining needs to be done so that you have an engine with correct tolerances when you assemble it. They can also save you a lot of money on the engine parts.

I would second this advice; take it out and put it through its paces; you will find the time and effort well spent. Best of luck with it!

I am glad to see you doing a tractor and planning it out ahead of time,most people get in over their heads because they do not plan. AS where to start, I say to start at the rear. The last thing I want is a rebuilt engine setting on a stand for a year. It is something I have seen time after time with cars and trucks. $15,000.00 for a new crate engine and then they get to the hard job of dirt, rust, broken bolts. Ten years later the engine is locked up on the stand,and the car is scattered everywhere and it is sold for scrap. Do the hard part first, then work on the flashy part,hearing that fresh engine running and a tractor ready to move that engine around. Lots of totes for parts and a Marks A Lot, with a bunch of paper wire tags(office supply store)and of course for the FFA,lots of pictures.

Thank you for all of this advice. I will see if I can find something to pull with it. it drives nices, has a little bit of gear noise when in 4th and 5th gear (has a aftermarket overdrive, I did not put it on)

Thank you for all of your help. I will let you guys know if I have any questions.

Cardboard is handy to keep bolts of different lengths pushed through on a drawing of where they go, such as the front engine cover. Also good for
keeping together and painting.

I like what you’re getting ready to do cause if young people don’t get involved with antique tractors they will
eventually go away. Don’t know if you need to rebuild the engine or not or just wanting to get it sealed up but
just for info a rebuilt engine for an F20 just popped up in classified ads on this webpage this morning. Obviously
a restoration in my opinion would require the original castings that came with the tractor, but some folks ain’t
that fussy. Good luck with your project and keep us posted. DP

Thanks for your advice.
I would have never thought of the cardboard.

As far as rebuilding the engine we might do new rings but we will decide when we get there. It mostly just needs gaskets and seals.

Thanks again

Sometimes "the cost of the restoration excedes the value of the machine" is not even in the equation. Sometimes we dont do it for
money. Somethings are priceless,we do what it takes. "Damn the torpedos" so to speak.Grandpas tractor,your first,an old favorite are prime examples.

(quoted from post at 08:01:05 11/26/20) Thanks for your advice.
I would have never thought of the cardboard.

As far as rebuilding the engine we might do new rings but we will decide when we get there. It mostly just needs gaskets and seals.

Thanks again

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Making good decisions about what it needs is where your automotive machine shop comes in.

On one that you can drive, listen to the transmission to check for noise. If it seems fairly quite (it will probably have a “hum”, no knocking or extreme noise in any
gear),then I would install new seals and change gear oil. I would suggest 140w. I would recommend a operators Manual, parts manual, and service manual. I
bought all three when I did my W30 because everting is not in the original service manual. When taking things apart, always pay attention To not only how it came
apart, but wear marks. You can dump a bucket of used trans parts on a Bench and then figure out how they go back together by the wear pattern of each
component to the one next to it. Having said all that, I like to work back to front. Just my two cents.

charlie,advise on rings. Those pistons come out from the bottom,and go back in from the bottom up. The crank end of the rod is too big to fit the 'hole'. To renew rings,push the
piston all the way up so the ring grooves are ABOVE the deck. Put the rings on the pistons,then push em down into their bore.another thing,if you need to pull the flywheel,it is a
press fit onto the crank with a round tapered key. You will need a special puller(easy to make) to pull the flywheel.ask lots of questions,we are here to help.I restored an F20 fron
the ground up about 15 years ago. It was a rusty bucket of bolts with missing parts. I well remember the 'lessons' learned.Call me if you want,I would be more than happy to talk you
through it and answer any questions.An F20 is a fun tractor,not too common anymore. (970)417-1178. Steve.

(quoted from post at 09:06:34 11/26/20) charlie,advise on rings. Those pistons come out from the bottom,and go back in from the bottom up. The crank end of the rod is too big to fit the 'hole'. To renew rings,push the
piston all the way up so the ring grooves are ABOVE the deck. Put the rings on the pistons,then push em down into their bore.another thing,if you need to pull the flywheel,it is a
press fit onto the crank with a round tapered key. You will need a special puller(easy to make) to pull the flywheel.ask lots of questions,we are here to help.I restored an F20 fron
the ground up about 15 years ago. It was a rusty bucket of bolts with missing parts. I well remember the 'lessons' learned.Call me if you want,I would be more than happy to talk you
through it and answer any questions.An F20 is a fun tractor,not too common anymore. (970)417-1178. Steve.

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Thanks Steve I will keep that in mind.

You are correct . And this will not be specified in any service manual as manuals are for mechanics to do the procedure and specs. Not to preach about the rule of thumb things u should already know.