Fluid filled tube question

Everyone keeps saying the old calcium fluid in tires eats rims.......well...... If you have it in a tube and your tube leaks why not patch it? I mean it can't eat the rim if it stays in the tube?? Right?

Right!

You're right. The problem is when the leak is not fixed right a way, the chloride sets and eats at the rim material till it is fixed. Many are not fixed in a reasonable time either they don't want to fool with it or it is not seen for quite a long time as it may not leak out right away. The chloride is also tough to get off the steel once it gets on it. I had one leak pulled it off right away cleaned it up with a brush and water hose. Wheeled it out to get any rust off then primed and painted. A couple years later had the same wheel apart and rust was back. Cleaned again fixed and reassembled.

i have calcium in several tractors. never lost a rim from it. problem is some people get a leak in the tube and dont fix it. then over time the calcium will rust out the rim. i paint the inside of my rims with a couple coats of por 15 rust converter, then put new tubes in and load them. no problem. and it adds a lot of weight fairly cheap. a 16.9 x 34 tire will hold 82 gallons of liquid. i mix 5 lb per gallon of calcium giving a total weight of 1060 lbs.

I never had much luck patching a tube that had fluid in it, better to just replace the tube.

You are correct, if it does not leak, it will not corrode.

Valve core's have been my problem. RB

They dont get fixed because it is a chore to pump the fluid out and back in again for what might be a really tiny leak.

I have one that will leak a drip out around the valve once in a while. Haven't put air in it since the last time I had a major leak 3-4 years ago.

Yes I know the rim is corroding. I can buy a new double bevel rim for $300. How much time can I spend chasing little leaks?

(quoted from post at 06:53:25 10/24/20) They dont get fixed because it is a chore to pump the fluid out and back in again for what might be a really tiny leak.

I have one that will leak a drip out around the valve once in a while. Haven't put air in it since the last time I had a major leak 3-4 years ago.

Yes I know the rim is corroding. I can buy a new double bevel rim for $300. How much time can I spend chasing little leaks?

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Exactly right. Both my bigger tractors will show occasional dampness around the valve stem on one rear tire. Never seen any actual liquid escape and I don't recall having to add air. But no doubt it is damaging the surface around the valve stem.
As far as damaging the inside of the rim, don't worry about that. I had a 2390 Case with fluid in the front tires when I got it. When it was about 20 years old I needed to replace the front tires and found they were tubelss tires with chloride in them. The rims looked just fine inside and out.

(quoted from post at 10:03:43 10/24/20)

(quoted from post at 06:53:25 10/24/20) They dont get fixed because it is a chore to pump the fluid out and back in again for what might be a really tiny leak.

I have one that will leak a drip out around the valve once in a while. Haven't put air in it since the last time I had a major leak 3-4 years ago.

Yes I know the rim is corroding. I can buy a new double bevel rim for $300. How much time can I spend chasing little leaks?

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Exactly right. Both my bigger tractors will show occasional dampness around the valve stem on one rear tire. Never seen any actual liquid escape and I don't recall having to add air. But no doubt it is damaging the surface around the valve stem.
As far as damaging the inside of the rim, don't worry about that. I had a 2390 Case with fluid in the front tires when I got it. When it was about 20 years old I needed to replace the front tires and found they were tubelss tires with chloride in them. The rims looked just fine inside and out.

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hat is an anomaly! Have had more than one , with tubes, rust the rims all the way thru. Cut out 4x4 inch piece around stem hole (& rust) and welded in new metal.

All of my tractors have chloride in them and none have rusted rims. With today's poor tubes it's harder to keep them from leaking but not impossible. I've found that it's better to use my old tubes if they hold air as they are more reliable than new ones.

I am not a fan of fluid in tires! Not because that even a seep leak will ruin a rim before you realize it, my main concern is that you are wasting power with every turn of the wheel. Think about it. The liquid inside the tire is always moving as you are driving. Friction wants to draw the liquid up where it comes in contact with the round part of the tire or tube. Gravity's pull wants to return the liquid to the lowest point in the tire/tube. Your engine has to work against gravety lifting liquid as it continues to move the load forward. How much of your power is wasted with every turn of the wheel? Cast iron or concrete is just along for the ride as gravety continues to do its work just pulling down while your engine continues to move everything forward without having to lift anything.

Eats valve stem too, I refuse to use it. Rather go a little faster with lighter tractor anyway.

Years ago (1970's) I was part of a tire dealership and we found out that CC was in tubeless rear tractor tires. This was in industrial tractors. I wonder how that worked out?

Biggest problem with having fluid is it adds a lot of expense and trouble to changing tires.No tire guy I know will patch a tube that has had fluid in it,replace with new tube only.If a couple 3 sets of wheel weights ain't enough for your tractor to do a job you need a bigger tractor anyway.

I find the valve stems can be a typical problem, change out the core, or worse, fluid and tube after the stem breaks loose.
If you could get decent tubes again, are there even any to be bought out there today that are any good?

The stability on hills that CACL liquid ballast provides is a great safety feature in these parts, I'd imagine though the alternatives are lighter per pound, would still work to provide the necessary stability to work safe on these hills.
My Ford/NH 4630 has the rear tires loaded with CACL and the previous owner definitely did nothing to maintain the valves.

They have weeped CACL and I have been afraid to mess with them as I am not sure if they could have just had the cores changed out vs. totally failing. Time has passed and I must deal with these, likely go for new OEM rims to insure I have a good set once they are broke down, the tires being original and lots of tread, might just re-mount. They have the usual other kinds of wear, minor slices and scuffs.

I've done these tire repairs in the past, kind of foolish to let this go on top of what the original owner did, timely repairs or maintenance is the key and on another tractor, tires are loaded, no issues after repairs, even the darned valve stems have held.

It takes determination to make a rim rust out from CaCl. Just think, for how long have they been putting tubeless tires on tractors at the factory? Many years right? Well did they stop adding CaCl? No. I repaired a tire maybe ten years ago that had CaCl in it for ten years. There was no significant deterioration of the steel. Just discoloration. Rusting is oxidation it takes oxygen. If you need to have your rim rusted you have to keep adding air regularly, either through the valve stem or around it if it is bad.

The stability on hills that CACL liquid ballast provides is a great safety feature in these parts, I'd imagine though the alternatives are lighter per pound, would still work to provide the necessary stability to work safe on these hills.

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Exactly. Everyone around here uses CACL because nothing around here is flat and you can't get more weight closer to the ground than with ballasted tires. Rims rust out because people don't maintain their equipment, then instead of blaming the failure on their own carelessness they blame it on the CACL.

We are all free to do whatever we feel works out the best for our tractors. One size does not fit all for sure. I had calcium put in the rears of my 1086 when it was new and had bias ply tires. The fluid gave good traction there was no doubt about it. This lasted for maybe 5000 hours. Then the right rim split on the inside of the rim and it shot fluid over everything under the cab. I washed under the cab the best I could but in a couple of months the transmission was locking into two gears at the same time. The shifting linkage on top of the transmission was freezing up with rust. I ended up taking the floor out of the cab and completely disassembling the shift linkage and shining and greasing every pin and pivot under there. Got that done, then the hydraulic linkage stiffened up so it was back under the cab to take that stuff apart. When the rim was replaced I did not have fluid put back in the tire and I drained the fluid out of the other tire. It was about time for new tires so I replaced the bias plys with radials. The radials gave me more traction but it still needed weight so I bought ten wheel weights on a farm sale and put five weights on each side. Two weights went on the inside of the wheel and three on the outside. now I was back to having comparable traction to the bias tires without fluid and I didn't have to mess with the nasty stuff anymore. I have a loader on that tractor now and I do need more weight in the winter. Fluid would help me out a lot with that but instead of fluid I hang a 1300 pound weight on the three point in the winter, it works on the quick hitch so it is easy on and easy off. So there are ways around using fluid if we don't want to mess with the stuff but in my opinion fluid still gives the best traction and is easier than manhandling weights, it's the corrosive properties of fluid I don't like.

We have an 8960 JohnDeere with fluid in all 8 tires since 1990 20.8 42 tires wit NO tubes . the wheels haven't rusted yet and it has had 4 sets of tires on it. The duals also have fluid in. WE do change valve cores about every 2 years . When rust happens is when a tube tire leaks inside then seeps by the stem a little at a time .

(quoted from post at 10:23:22 10/24/20) I am not a fan of fluid in tires! Not because that even a seep leak will ruin a rim before you realize it, my main concern is that you are wasting power with every turn of the wheel. Think about it. The liquid inside the tire is always moving as you are driving. Friction wants to draw the liquid up where it comes in contact with the round part of the tire or tube. Gravity's pull wants to return the liquid to the lowest point in the tire/tube. Your engine has to work against gravety lifting liquid as it continues to move the load forward. How much of your power is wasted with every turn of the wheel? Cast iron or concrete is just along for the ride as gravety continues to do its work just pulling down while your engine continues to move everything forward without having to lift anything.

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expect that such loss in immeasurable except in the imagination! :roll:

The reason we went with fluid on this tractor was not only cost but we had powerhop and couln't get
enough dry weight on it to stop it . It has right at 13000 lbs of fluid in it with deeptread tires
it very rarely hops now. Only where trucks are parked . Most of time I would agree dry weight is
better if you can get enough on and can afford it .

(quoted from post at 07:23:22 10/24/20) I am not a fan of fluid in tires! Not because that even a seep leak will ruin a rim before you realize it, my main concern is that you are wasting power with every turn of the wheel. Think about it. The liquid inside the tire is always moving as you are driving. Friction wants to draw the liquid up where it comes in contact with the round part of the tire or tube. Gravity's pull wants to return the liquid to the lowest point in the tire/tube. Your engine has to work against gravety lifting liquid as it continues to move the load forward. How much of your power is wasted with every turn of the wheel? Cast iron or concrete is just along for the ride as gravety continues to do its work just pulling down while your engine continues to move everything forward without having to lift anything.

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jalSD, you are absolutely right about the power loss. It is actually called friction loss. I am a member of my town Fire Dept. and since I am old I no longer go interior. Instead I am a driver operator now. Operators are tasked with delivering the proper flow of water where it is needed at the correct pressure. In orrder to do this you have to be aware of how much water is being used determined by what nozzles are in use, and how much hose the water is flowing through so that you can figure the friction loss and adjust for it. The larger the diameter of the hose the less there is, while the more flow the more there is. At 6MPH the liquid in the tire is traveling pretty slowly, compared to when a lot of water is being pushed through a fire hose to a nozzle. The diameter of the inside
of the tire is way larger than any hose that I am aware of. The combination of the low flow and the large diameter of your tires tells us that the friction loss, though it is positively there, would be so small as to be unmeasurable.