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Brass or plastic

H

Heyseed

Member
Moving a frost proof hydrant and needed a 90 fitting. The only brass ones I find around her have short barbs, the barely fit two hose clamps and the old pipe side is being difficult about sealing. Getting a drip a day. I have been to Big Blue, two hardware stores and a plumbing supply house. I keep being offered a plastic one that is plenty long enough, but I'm hesitating to use plastic. This is never going to be accessible again. It gets a concrete slab poured over it. What do you guys think about using plastic?
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Is that PVC well tubing? Those barb connectors are prone to leaking in a short time under pressure. At lease thats my luck with them.
I would do it if not covered with concrete.
 
I use plastic, put pipe dope on the barbs and put 2ea hose clamps on each side. No leaks. I am on hydrant number 3 in my barn in 20 years. First one lasted about 12 years but started leaking due to our acid water eating the brass seat, then freezing. 2nd one was cheap. 3rd is a woodford. Hopefully, last time I get to stick my head and shoulders down into that muddy hole.
 
We have dug up plenty of plastic pipe with old crusty stainless hose clamps that were working just fine. A steel hose clamp would be a different story. After a plastic pipe has been in the ground for several years will it leak if the clamp lets go? Most of the plastic pipe I have dug up was bonded like glue to the barb. You can find brass els with longer barbs but you wont find them at the box stores. You need to find an old mom and pop plumbing supply to get the good ones. Costs a bunch more but worth every cent.
 
That’s why I use copper tube size or cts with compression style fittings. The barbs definitely work but the heavier pipe and fittings make me feel better but I’ve been in the water and sewer industry my whole life and I’ve seem demos of what CT’s will take
 
I have dug up several broken plastic fittings. Don't remember a failed brass fitting unless caused by a corroded galvanized steel fitting allowing the leak to damage threaded connection. I have seen clamps fail when automotive style cheap clamps were used these have a steel screw which will rust away when buried, use only the full stainless clamps- cost more but saves digging. I have also found it pays to use premium quality pipe, not cheap chain store type. some good pipe carries up to a 50 year warrantee. It often helps to warm pipe before assembling connection. If compression type fittings are used always use the stainless insert made for these. Formerly worked for well driller/plumber and municipal water dept.
 
i dont like the looks of that, what kind of tubing is it? i would go all plastic same as the piping for floor heat in cement.
 
Better side bolt clamps will do it. Think of the tiny bit of stainless touching the worm gear just before the little bitty teeth strip off of the band. Jim
this type.
 
Double O I still need a union even if tried to bend the pipe. I don't trust Shark bites. I did spring for Stainless clamps, a little more pricy, but this isn't where I want to go cheap. I will cover this with some fine gravel and keep the larger stones away. Sadly we don't have any of those old Mom & Pop hardware stores around here anymore. I even tried Grainger online, no luck there either.
Luckily I don't need to close this up for a while. I have to go up to Berkeley Springs next week and will try Hunter's Hardware.
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How much digging would it take to get rid of the fitting and replace everything under the slab with a solid run of PEX?

And what are the consequences of it failing? Can it be routed around the slab later?

Plastic pipe is cheap compared to the cost of having to go back later.
 
Steve it is over thirty feet of ground like you see in the first photo. I would need to rent a Mini excavator, most of it is under a roof. I had the thought if it failed later to go around the outside. In that short ten feet I pulled up a stack of football size rocks, there is a reason our roads are lined with stone walls for miles. Yes the pipe is very cheap 100 feet for about $25.
This is a photo of the structure when I first built it for the previous owner over ten years ago. The cabin was there, I added the parking shed, she called it a gazebo. Working shutters on the windward side, Open to the pond on this side. She used it as a picnic shelter and a parking place in the winter. The water was there, and I just learned it runs pretty much straight up the center.
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I remember when the town got city water,I also remember ten years later when everyone(maybe just the ones we found)failed at the plastic couplers/elbows. THe black 3/4 pipe was fine just the plastic joints. Mine are all brass with stainless steel clamps.
 

No way would I use brass without testing the pH of the water. In many areas water is very acidic, and will eat brass out in no time. My new well, installed in 1992, was plumbed with all plastic including running to the barn and my shop. No problems. Plastic is standard for longevity in corrosive environments.
 
When hooking up to city water system, I learned our township inspector required only copper supply lines. Six hundred feet of 1.5" copper was expensive even 20 years ago, but we couldn't make it leak at any of the joints.

Plumbed the barn supply from the house in black plastic, two hydrants and a cattle fountain. Every possible connection has failed at least once already. Lesson learned, hard way.

YMMV
 
Get stainless steel barbs. I can get them ad sprayer supply houses and not much difference in price to your brass fittings. I know these folks are not close to you. Try Owosso Bolt and brass. If they don't have it you probably don't need it for plumbing and such. 989 725 2131 Owosso Bolt &Brass Owosso MI good people and both the ladies know their stuff. Mom has worked there for 10-20 years and the other is her daughter and is good at parts. Also sell bolts of all sizes.
 
I think the plastic with stainless steel clamps will be ok in the trench. I would make sure the 90 at the frost valve was brass.
 
I was putting in a line to our barn.
I bought the plastic stuff. The
excavator said he could put that in
but he would be back to replace it
some day. He said copper was the way
to go. We put in copper. That was 30
years ago. Expensive but worth it.
 
(quoted from post at 08:05:28 10/07/20)
No way would I use brass without testing...
Click to expand...

I'll second the importance of knowing your water.

Several comments on here talk about the excellence of copper. This is true in many areas, but in our area the well water eats copper. Brass fittings tend to be thick and last a long time, but I've seen them get eaten away, too. Plumbers have fun stories....

Know your water, and know your location. If you don't know, talk with a plumber who does service work in that area frequently.
 
I'm going to change to Pex next time I work on my water. And wrap all connectors in good electrical tape.
 
(quoted from post at 06:17:13 10/07/20) I'm going to change to Pex next time I work on my water. And wrap all connectors in good electrical tape.
Click to expand...
n 2018 I had 1300' of 3/4" pex installed. Had 2 frostproof hydrants installed, one in the yard just off the fenceline and the other at the shop wall. All connections done with shark bite connectors. The man that put it in said that was the way to go.
 
I agree with the CTS fittings which are brass, with a stainless sleeve that inserts into the plastic roll pipe, so you can tighten down the clamp connections on the CTS fittings. Only thing is, your plastic roll pipe must be CTS size, instead of "iron pipe size." That's what I used 20 years ago on my main, no issues.
 
There should also be a continuous print out on the side of the roll pipe, telling you weather it's CTS or IPS. Might be the source of the drip, if your trying to use barb fittings on CTS pipe.
 
Should I be concerned? In 1984 I ran 1" plastic, 5' deep, from the curb municiple water tap 400' to a
mobile home and then a year later to our new house. I have not had any problems. Yet?
One thing I probably should have done is layed a wire down with it to trace the line but I do maintain a
set of "as builts" for all of my undergrounds; electric, water, natural gas.
I can almost mark the utilites faster than miss-dig. But I would not do that and for good
reason...liability.
 
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