To small bale or not to small bale

Hi everyone, I watched a very interesting Youtube video recently showing two NH 'Stack Cruisers' I think they were, following two JD small balers. Apparently there were some 4000 bales of straw in the field or prairie more-like by our standards. To me, it begs the question to be working on that sort of scale wouldn't big rounds or big squares be a far more economical way to shift them to the storage area? Whilst the small bale blocks can be delivered conveniently it surely must take longer with an outlay of around I believe $220,000 per machine. Is there a big demand in the prairie States for small bales? In the UK there have been many methods tried for collecting small bales. The most common is the 'Flat 8' sledge towed behind the baler with a 'Flat 8' grab on the front-end loader. Others have included an elevator that is towed beside an enclosed trailer going back to the bale sledge which was manually dumped when it became full. For some reason the 'bale-thrower' attached to the baler never caught on over here. It's not possible to say that one method is really better than another because it is down to whatever suits each farmer, quantity to shift, horsepower available and age and size of the buildings.
What in your opinions makes the most efficient small bale handling system from small scale to large scale? Thanks.
DavidP, South Wales

Small bales bring a little more money but there’s also a lot more labor involved.

A lot would depend on what your customers would like. I'm a small producer and most of my buyers have small two or three stall barns and can't handle rounds or store enough in the lofts to get through the winter months.

I think the accumulators that pack the bales into an approx 8' x 4' (21 x bale) block and band them are the way to go for small bales.
You can push those blocks of bales straight into a dry van semi trailer or container/sea can and ship them out by truck.
There is no wasted space in the trailer and no handling.
Bale Band-It is the one I've seen, but there are probably others.
Chris

My feeling is it boils down to time and money.

Squares definitely bring more money than rounds in my area.

We bale onto kicker wagons because there is a full time day job in the way, I can bale in the evenings, park the wagons in the barn and unload another day. Bales off the field in one pass and in the barn.

When I retire, we might consider an accumulator grapple system. Down side to that is another pass across the field, however, in retirement, I'd have the time and probably would like to lower the physical labor on myself unloading and stacking.

Stack wagons - that would be great, but IMHO take a lot of volume to pencil out.

YMMV

Bill

If the video you're talking about is the same one I'm thinking about, those small squares go to race horses. In that instance, it's easier for everyone involved to handle, as well as put in the horse trailer & store at whatever venue they arrive at. Should there be an over abundance, it would be more convenient sell the bales to other horse owners.

Now, I think it was last year that I first saw that video. My interest in automatic bale wagons came about because I don't have any help anymore & had to find something to use to get the hay done in short order by myself on small acreage. Also, my thrower on the baler needed a lot of parts replaced to get it back into good shape. Most of the research was done on the internet & YouTube seemed to have the most videos. After my mind was satisfied that there was enough info on the subject, my next move was to get one. That I did this past spring at an auction. The unit purchased is a 1010 Stackliner, the pull type version. It was made in either 1968 or early '69. It wasn't in the best shape. Didn't pay much for it so I won't complain. I found it took more elbow grease to clean it than was needed to fix it. The worst of it was a stuck hydraulic valve. That I was able to free up without much of a problem. A chain & some other minor parts & it was ready for grease & oil. Tested all the functions until content. I can say, it takes some getting used to in the field. It turns like a semi trailer & the pickup is on the front of the machine on the left hand side. Found it handy to have a narrow front on the tractor. Easier to turn & it's one less tire to flatten a bale with. Once I got used to it things went faster. Went a bit too fast during second cutting & lodged two bales under the second table. Lol! So, now I have a setup that works for me. Couldn't be happier!



I've included a link to the video of my machine below. It's a bit lengthy. The camera was in one position along side the field & there are a few periods of "dead air" where nothing is going on. One of these days, I'll edit that one. Just recently uploaded two videos from the day after I got it home & was beginning to figure out what was what.

Regards,
Mike
Stackliner....

I have a "big" hayfield.....6 acres of mine and 5-6 acres of the neighbors.
I fell into a NH 1281 seif-propelled small square baler. Works great for me!!
Usually I can sell most laying in the field. The rest I take my small Kubota with loader
and stack 15-20 bales in my dumpy trailer and haul them to a small stack.
I usually charge $5/bale, but if they pick them from the field, I charge $4.
Another neighbor has a "Stooker" that stacks 6 bales in a triangle pile.
Might try that next year.
I try not to keep any of mine over!!!

Be careful-lots of those self propelled bailers ended up in salvage yards as a twisted pile of burned metal. Keep the engine compartment CLEAN! That appears to be where the fire started on all the hulk's I've seen.

I know what you mean. But someone re-powered this one with a
Allis model B or C (can't remember which right now) 4 cylander power
unit with a main clutch and all. They did a very good job!!
The only drawback is it's hand crank!! If it doesn't start on the first 4-5
cranks, I get my Kubota, a chain, and my wife to pull-start it!!
It's a great baler. If it misses a bale, it's "operator error".
I either miss threaded it or my knot didn't hold.
Going to a sale tomorrow. They have a little IHC power unit.
I don't remember if it has a main clutch, but it is a right angle drive.
I'll check it out closer tomorrow.

I've been using a 5x6 round baler on small acreages the last 5-6 years. I have a NH 67 baler which I used for years before that. I did keep 10 cows with calves and a bull for those years, so there was no problem using up hay and straw, relatively speaking. I know one year I put up 4500 bales of hay and 2000 or so of straw I figured I spent close to 800$ on sisal twine, didn't use it all but 800$ goes a good way year after year for paying for a round baler, an old one that is

There are cases were its not about what brings the most money labor saving ect, its whats easy and practical for the user. I worked at 3 different horse farms, thoroughbred boarding and breeding farms, were i kept my horse and the other farm which had upward of 2-300 horse used small square bales, the other nit wit i worked for less then 2 years used big squares, a pain to feed in the stalls.





Second and 3rd pic are what barns look like from the outside, first pic is the view looking down a 40 stall barn, 20 stalls each side, you drive straight threw with the tractor and dump wagon to clean the stalls, the mares and foal were bedded on straw, so night crew would stack straw 2-3 bales high on one side of the shedrow behind the stall door, hay would go on the opposite side of the row, and shavings dumped in center when needed, no way to use round bales in a situation like this, small squares were just easier to deal with.. i laugh at the guys who call them idiot cubes! My friend who used to milk cows in a tie stall barn also put up small squares, about 7000 in the mow above the cows, we would slide open a door in the floor and drop down the hay in the center isle to feed to the cows. There was no way to get a round bale into his barn either.
Here we have accumlators, bale baskets, bale stackers ect, i just use a baler with a thrower and rack wagons.

My next ranch neighbor puts up about 6000 tons in small bales, has two Freeman self-propelled 14x18 balers and two stackwagons. The hay goes Florida and Texas and is hauled in van trailers.Little hand labor is used. He also does another 30,000+ tons in 3x4 bales using Deere Balers

We have a 10 small bale grabber. 8 long ways and 2 cross wise. Put on trailer opposite every time times them nicely for a few mile trip to barn. We are small producers, just cut 10 acres at a time. Our grabber has a accumulator that un pins. So my grandson who is 13 follows the baler making the 10's. Then he takes it off and loads the gooseneck trailer. It 27 ft. And will hold 40 a layer. Our little John Deere will load it 5 high. And stack in barn 7 high. And will retrieve them from barn and load as they are sold.

Thanks for the replies. Seems your thinking is much the same as here. It’s largely down to quantity to shift and the best way to store and feed it.
DavidP

We sort of split the difference. With 4x4 bales most horsey people have a loader they can lift and move them or can haul with pickup to feed. Less work for us. The dairy hay is done here no cows left anymore and the big dairies don't or can't or won't pay anything for hay. Idiot cubes fetch more cash but with no labor to do it. I'm not going to spend money on all the mechanization to do it with the fickle hay market that is here.

David, you asked about demand for small squares in the prairie states. The real question is "what is the producer's proximity to a strong high dollar horse owner market?" When you can sell small squares for $9.00 apiece, large squares or rounds just don't pencil out.