Now I got real electrical problems

john in la · Jun 21, 2020

The ceiling fan / light in my bedroom would not come on.
I traced power from the fuse box to the light and found a broken hot at the light fixture.
It seems the electrical box was screwed into the ceiling.
The screws worked them self loose over the years from the fan motion.
This fan motion also bent the wire back and forth and over time broke the wire.

The problem is the wire is broken off up in the ceiling with no slack in the wire.
I do not see any way to repair this other than tearing all the sheet rock down.
It is a vaulted ceiling so there is no attic access from above.
Any ideas?????

Absent Minded Farmer · Jun 21, 2020

I'd clean up the end, flux & solder on a short length of wire. Coat the new joint in liquid electrical tape. Just my simple fix idea. Probably isn't up to someones spec, but that's what I would do.

Mike

Billy Shafer · Jun 21, 2020

That is what I would do. Saves alot of time and money.

dr sportster · Jun 21, 2020

The only legal way to do it is with a butt spice . Otherwise open up the ceiling .

centash · Jun 21, 2020

Could you add some wire at the panel and pull it through a bit?

Ben

buickanddeere · Jun 21, 2020

Properly done butt splices with a heat shrink cover are almost legal and can be reasonable serviceable .
Nothing to be proud of however .
One of the reasons why the the new electrical code states that a courtesy loop is supposed to be left at each electrical box .

M-MAN · Jun 21, 2020

The picture doesn't show what type box you have. If it's a regular box it will be pretty easy to fix. If it's a ceiling fan box on a support bar it's a little more complicated.

I would remove the box and build a new one. Piggyback a work box to the incoming side and run the wire pigtail from it. I have seen the boxes with that extension built in but they were plastic. They might make metal ones as well. Cut just enough sheet sheetrock to put it in and then patch the sheetrock back. A little spackle and a texture brush or roll will blend it back in. You can tint the spackle to match the color too.

john in la · Jun 21, 2020

I imagine there is plenty of wire in the ceiling already.
The wire feels like it is stapled to the ceiling joist with no way to access the staples.
So pulling more wire is a no go.

fixerupper · Jun 21, 2020

Make the hole in the ceiling just enough bigger than the present hole to give you room to make a good splice to add length to the old wire and cover it up with an oversized baseplate for the light/ceiling fan.

ss55 · Jun 21, 2020

Can you use fish tapes to pull a new wire from the switch to the fan?

john in la · Jun 21, 2020

dr sportster Yes I am concerned with safety but lets leave legal; as in all connections must be in a box and accessible out of the equation.

Now with that in mind tell me about a butt splice.
I really do not have room to put a wire nut but a splice may work.
Are we talking a butt splice like you would use on a tractor wire.
Or are they to small for 120v and I need a special butt splice.

Do they make a butt splice that does not need crimping.
Just slides on.
I'm thinking similar to a shark bite for water pipe type of butt splice.

Riggs rigs · Jun 21, 2020

I had this same problem. I started off trying to pull the wire out with no success as it was stapled and not enough room to get at it, so I cut the drywall. I used a square and cut out a 8” rectangle. Cutting the drywall to the center of the 16”studs so I had a place to screw a new piece on. When I got in there I realized that the wire had been arcing and I was probably lucky my garage was still standing. I didn’t trust that old wire because it was now hard and brittle. I decided that the only way I could sleep at night was to replace it. I again cut the drywall at strategic places and used a fishing tool to run a new wire. It took me all day but I got it.
I wouldn’t Mickey Mouse wiring in my house. It’s probably your biggest investment and a place you should feel safe. Tear the drywall down if you have to it’s not worth you or your families life.

john in la · Jun 21, 2020

To answer a few questions....

The box is a normal metal electrical box.
Plastic will not work because the fan needs to hang from it.

There is a 2x4 ??? nailed between 2 roof rafters.
This box is screwed into that 2x4.

The box has a small cover plate contoured to the vaulted ceiling.
You can see the size of this cover plate by the difference in ceiling spackel.
Finding a bigger cover plate to fit this contour may be difficult.

This fan piece gets screwed to the electrical box and the fan hangs from it.

dr sportster · Jun 21, 2020

The blue plastic covered butt splice from an auto parts store .{electric supply only sells box of fifty]

1948CaseVAI · Jun 21, 2020

You can get all kinds and looks in ceiling "medallions". On Lowes I see nice looking one up to 16 inch diameter (search for ceiling medallion). You can enlarge the hole to make a proper repair then put up a good looking medallion and you are home free (and safe). With a large hole you may even be able to reach over with something and pull a staple and get some added wire length.

wore out · Jun 21, 2020

One option would be to make a hole about a foot and a half away (or more) in the direction the wire comes from to fit a proper junction box and splice on a new length of wire leaving plenty extra to go to the fan.

When done, texture the box cover and it will be almost invisible to those who don't know it's there, or install a smoke detector over the box cover and it will look like you are a very safety-conscious guy and no one will know there's a junction box hidden there!

Been there, done that, with a smoke detector, to cover similar setup in my wife's living room!

Janicholson · Jun 21, 2020

Use a Sawsall with a carbide grit blade to cut out material to the cover square marks only. (lots of dust) Put a junction box on the existing wire to add more length. Create support around the existing box to make it flush to the existing texture. Jim

Olliejunkie · Jun 21, 2020

If you dont mind a blank cover in your ceiling you could cut in a single gang or two gang box and splice your wire in it. You could cut in a 3/0 or 4/0 too but might be harder to find a nice cover. If you have ceiling heat you have to be careful what you cut.

Steve@Advance · Jun 21, 2020

Since it appears there is only one Romex coming into the box (not through wired), couldn't you just move the box over 3-4 inches to get enough slack?

Then repair the drywall or cover it with a medallion.

I would be afraid to make a connection outside of the box.

Stephen Newell · Jun 21, 2020

You could solder a length of wire to what you have and then insulate it with a shrink wrap but you wouldn't know what the condition of the wire was in the ceiling. It might be in bad shape and might be a fire hazard. If it were me I would cut open the ceiling around the box and check the condition of the wire. If you are careful you could cut the rock with a jab saw and then put that same piece of rock back back on. It's not as difficult as you think to patch the seam. You can run a bead of caulk around the saw cut and then rework the texture by dabbing the seam with a small paint brush with drywall mud. It would be a good idea to replace the metal box in the process. It's kind of unheard of for the vibration from a ceiling fan to unscrew the bolts.

old-9 · Jun 21, 2020

John, I would suggest you hire an electrical contractor, they will do the job the correct way. I retired after 40 years twisting wire, every job is different, a good electrician will be able to access the problem and will be responsabile for the work. As far as using butt splices on solid wire, I would never use them. luck, joe

Paul from MI · Jun 21, 2020

Crimp-on butt splices don't work well on solid wires, don't use them. Best solution is to open up the ceiling, do it right, and call your best drywall guy.

Olliejunkie · Jun 21, 2020

I would also recommend getting a box rated for ceiling fan. To do it right you will have to put a cut in box next to the fan or replace the wire back to where you can access it. In a vaulted ceiling it's not so easy to pull wire into although I have been in some vaulted ceiling that had attic space.

buickanddeere · Jun 21, 2020

An excellent idea . I am going to remember that trick .

showcrop · Jun 22, 2020

I have been using push on connectors at church for installing ballast bypass LEDs. Here are some: WAGO 222-412 (50 PK) COMPACT SPLICING CONNECTOR 2-CONDUCTOR TERMINAL BLOCK.

They take up very little space so if you have 1/4 inch inside the box you can use this type.

BarnyardEngineering · Jun 22, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:37:28 06/21/20) John, I would suggest you hire an electrical contractor, they will do the job the correct way. I retired after 40 years twisting wire, every job is different, a good electrician will be able to access the problem and will be responsabile for the work. As far as using butt splices on solid wire, I would never use them. luck, joe

A good electrician would yes, but you don't know you have a good electrician until they pull out the claw hammer and start swinging at the sheetrock. Then it's too late.

Now I got real electrical problems

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