rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
Digging out the old dam pond. Likely hasn t been dug since 1933. How far below the spillway inlet should I go?
- Thread starter rockyridgefarm
- Start date
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
How deep do you want the water to be?
OP
OP
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
Much as I can hold. I figure there must be a calculation for the amount of water in relation to the size of the dam. I need the dirt for around the farm, but I also am very concerned the this year is gonna drought. So the more rainwater I can hold the better.
The overflow looks to be pretty large, so maybe quite a few acres run into it. Do you know what the watershed is above the pond? About 60 acres comes into my pond which has a 12 inch overflow pipe and 5 feet of storage above the pipe. I have one acre of surface water. The depth and area you dig will determine if it is just suitable for waterfowl during migration or can actually sustain fish. If you want to fish the pond I would think it would have to be at least 10 feet deep or more depending on where you are located and winter temperatures. My pond was 29 feet deep when I built it. I never have any fish kills during the winter. I am located south of Interstate 80 in Iowa. Make sure while you are digging that you still have a good thick layer of clay across the ENTIRE bottom or it will not hold water. I question whether you can really move the amount of material that you need to in building a quality pond with a skid loader. Probably need a bulldozer or scraper. Lastly, do you know the history of the pond? Was it truly a pond, or was the "overflow" actually a drop structure to move water from a higher elevation to a lower elevation without cutting a gully. Good luck.
Tony in SD
Well-known Member
I can't tell from the pictures but you want to slope the high side of the dam in such a way the the vertical pressure of the water is maximized and the horizontal pressure in minimized. that way there
will not be as much pressure against the dam.
will not be as much pressure against the dam.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
If you take care to watch the soil horizons, you should be able to detect the original cut contours. Since it has been
stable all these years, going to that depth can hurt nothing. If you desire more volume, (as noted below) going into sand,
or gravel can drain the pond in short order, or fill it is the surface water is near the level of the spillway. But with
the bottom in porous material, the level will be dependent on surface water level, and subject to drought. The two options
are to go bigger, or deeper, or some of both. Bigger is OK, but increases water evaporation, and temperature. deeper
should be done tapering away from the containment side of the dam at no greater angle than originally built in. 12 to 1
grade is reasonable for bank edges. if you intend to take out 100 of those dump trailer loads, it will not make much of a
dent. If you need real volume you will need to put heavy equipment in the pit, and bottom dumps to haul it away. (I, and
my family, own a 8 acre lake which was constructed to make I-94. It ran into gravel at 28 feet below projected water level,
and started filling. The contractor cut about 6 feet deeper in that lowest spot, and filled it with the same yellow clay
from the main cut then compacted it by scraper traffic to plug the porosity. Jim
stable all these years, going to that depth can hurt nothing. If you desire more volume, (as noted below) going into sand,
or gravel can drain the pond in short order, or fill it is the surface water is near the level of the spillway. But with
the bottom in porous material, the level will be dependent on surface water level, and subject to drought. The two options
are to go bigger, or deeper, or some of both. Bigger is OK, but increases water evaporation, and temperature. deeper
should be done tapering away from the containment side of the dam at no greater angle than originally built in. 12 to 1
grade is reasonable for bank edges. if you intend to take out 100 of those dump trailer loads, it will not make much of a
dent. If you need real volume you will need to put heavy equipment in the pit, and bottom dumps to haul it away. (I, and
my family, own a 8 acre lake which was constructed to make I-94. It ran into gravel at 28 feet below projected water level,
and started filling. The contractor cut about 6 feet deeper in that lowest spot, and filled it with the same yellow clay
from the main cut then compacted it by scraper traffic to plug the porosity. Jim
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Should be a good market for the soil you are digging out.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
In addition to the comments made above. there is no way to change the pressure on the dam unless you undercut the water
facing side with steeper angles toward vertical, thin or modify the ends of the dam, or raise the level of the spill way.
increasing the volume does not change the force applied. Jim
facing side with steeper angles toward vertical, thin or modify the ends of the dam, or raise the level of the spill way.
increasing the volume does not change the force applied. Jim
Richard G.
Well-known Member
The NRCS is the one to ask that question.
Pond work around here has to be approved by them.
I am sure it is the same all over the country.
They may even have records on the pond when it was dug back then.
That would be very helpful.
Richard in NW SC
Pond work around here has to be approved by them.
I am sure it is the same all over the country.
They may even have records on the pond when it was dug back then.
That would be very helpful.
Richard in NW SC
IHRedRules
Member
I can almost bet there are no records from back then at the local NRCS office. The Soil Erosion Service was created in 1933, and wouldn?t have had coverage over 100% of the country at that time. It wasn?t until 1935 that the Soil Conservation Service was created and in 1994 became NRCS.
OP
OP
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
It drains 200+/- acres.
Above dam
Below dam
This is a washed out spot I m fixing
Above dam
Below dam
This is a washed out spot I m fixing
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Older post but always needs to be someone with a critical reply, that will be me this go around. Wondering why
you use that cross bar hitch on your 3 point to tow that truck dump bed? If I was doing it I would use the draw
bar due it being much more solid. I understand that this makes it easy to hitch up, but just hitch it with the 3 point
a then block it at the right height to hook on the drawbar. I think no matter how close you have the 3 point anti-
sway blocks set it will still have side to side play. That constant banging would irritate the heck out of me. Just
IMOP.
you use that cross bar hitch on your 3 point to tow that truck dump bed? If I was doing it I would use the draw
bar due it being much more solid. I understand that this makes it easy to hitch up, but just hitch it with the 3 point
a then block it at the right height to hook on the drawbar. I think no matter how close you have the 3 point anti-
sway blocks set it will still have side to side play. That constant banging would irritate the heck out of me. Just
IMOP.
OP
OP
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
I posted it yesterday, so I wouldn t call it old. I have the sway blocks on the 4640 at cat 3N, doesn t sway much. I like it the way it is. I have a much shorter turning radius because the swivel is further back versus the drawbar. As you mentioned, it is much better for hooking up. When I load it, I can drop the drawbar and do a better job loading with my smallish skid steer. Best part is I cannot borrow it out unless the borrower has a bigger tractor and it cannot be pulled down the road with a pickup.
I got a lil more serious about digging. My skid steer dug out 35 loads, but as it broke through I kept nearly getting stuck. This is a lil more effective
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
I understand your reasoning all is good. Even though
I didn?t comment on it I have some earth moving
genes. My dad liked all sort of projects like that and in
part that was passed on to me. He had an eye for
grade when fixing terraces on our KS farm. He also
ran the road grader in our township. Early on my
grandpa also helped with the local roads but I think it
was more out of necessity back then. I think part of
what he did involved a team of horses. On a little
more of an antidotical note when we had the local
bulldozer guy come out to our farm in the 60s and 70s
to put in terraces, a pond or clean up trees my dad
would always be out there with our trusty Farmall H
with the trip loader. We had a sprayer that mounted
on the back that used two 55 gallon drums to hold the
spray mix. He would fill them about half full.with
water. He would clean up and pile brush, smaller
stumps and pretty up the dribbles as he called it. The
dozer guy would always comment how much that little
Farmall could do. In the later years when the engine
was starting to wear out we really kind of neglected it
because we didn?t feel it was worth putting much
money in. Its final demise was a ball bearing under a
bull gear that popped out the casting. I now have that
same ...Horndraulic... loader on my M. As far as the
depth you should cut it out to I can?t speak for that. I
could not make much out of the picture you showed
of the wash out you said you were fixing.
I didn?t comment on it I have some earth moving
genes. My dad liked all sort of projects like that and in
part that was passed on to me. He had an eye for
grade when fixing terraces on our KS farm. He also
ran the road grader in our township. Early on my
grandpa also helped with the local roads but I think it
was more out of necessity back then. I think part of
what he did involved a team of horses. On a little
more of an antidotical note when we had the local
bulldozer guy come out to our farm in the 60s and 70s
to put in terraces, a pond or clean up trees my dad
would always be out there with our trusty Farmall H
with the trip loader. We had a sprayer that mounted
on the back that used two 55 gallon drums to hold the
spray mix. He would fill them about half full.with
water. He would clean up and pile brush, smaller
stumps and pretty up the dribbles as he called it. The
dozer guy would always comment how much that little
Farmall could do. In the later years when the engine
was starting to wear out we really kind of neglected it
because we didn?t feel it was worth putting much
money in. Its final demise was a ball bearing under a
bull gear that popped out the casting. I now have that
same ...Horndraulic... loader on my M. As far as the
depth you should cut it out to I can?t speak for that. I
could not make much out of the picture you showed
of the wash out you said you were fixing.
OP
OP
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
I wish I had the same skill your dad had. We have the first section dug down about 4 feet. Rain had been predicted for today, so I didn t want to make too much of a mess, but we ended up only getting a couple tenths - barely enough to settle the dust.
The dirt at 4 depth is VERY wet. I am guessing my lil dump trailer is about 6 yards heaped. The dozer probably pushed out 20 more loads on top of the 35 I dug myself. I would say we have done 20% of the surface area of the original pond. It has a very high clay content, so it pry is not considered "topsoil".
The picture of the washout did not post, I must have gotten a little too quick on the submit button.
Thanks for the replies.
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