we are working on a 1948 Farmall H, my son is working on it as an FFA project. When he go it, it was already converted to 12V, it now has a new starter and we put on Pertonix EI. He was driving it a few months ago, the tractor died and we can't get it to start now, it has been stored inside since. It has the vertical distributor set up on it. I had the distributor cap off and it seems to be off time, what is my best course of action from here? Is there something in the drive bushings, or drive that I should be helping him to look at to get the tractor running again? Just a little info, I was a parts person, all though for the "green" guys, I am familiar with tractor lingo. Just not a full blown mechanic.
- Thread starter Harri4isu
- Start date
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
First thing to check is take the center wire off the distributor cap and hold it say a 1/4 inch from the block and have it turned on and spin it over. If it has no spark good chance the electronic ignition has fried. If it has spark then get #1 cylinder at TDC and see where the rotor is pointing. If on the compression stroke it should be pointing to the #1 nipple on the cap. If it isn't try turning it till it come back up on TDC on #1 and see if it is then. Watch the rotor as you are turning the engine to be sure it is moving. Some times the drive gear on the bottom of the distributor will strip out and if it does that yes it will not run. Also if it has true wire spark plug wires on it then it is likely to be the ignition module has fried. Electronic ignition in most cases nee the newer suppression type wires
[q="old"](reply to post at 11:03:17 02/03/20) [/quote]e know for sure the rotor is moving, we had the tractor worked on with my son earlier, the gentleman that helped him took it to TDC, and the tractor ran like a top, but for some reason it looks to have jumped time again, we have 12V to the coil and spark but pull a plug wire, ground to the block for visual, and no spark. Looking for an idea for the possibility that it is jumping time?
Oregon Tractor Jack
Member
There are several things that have to go with a Petronix ignition. You need to have the correct coil and use automotive resistance type spark plug wires. If you used the wrong one of either it may have fried the igniter. Also there is the possibility that the coil has gone bad and has in internal short, that will fry the igniter also. I had one fry because of that. Also, never leave the ignition on if the tractor is not running. I run my tractors with the gas shut off to empty the carbs. Did that once and forgot to turn off the ignition after it quit. Fried it.
OTJ
OTJ
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
There may be more than one problem if it is truly out of time.
Double check the timing first. Pull the #1 plug, turn the engine until you feel compression on the cylinder with your finger over the plug hole. Continue turning until the engine is at TDC. The rotor should be pointing at the #1 terminal of the distributor cap. If it is close, it is probably still in time, close enough to run. If it is pointing somewhere else, it is out of time, and if it got out of time by itself, there is something wrong, a stripped gear, sheared roll pin, etc.
Then address the spark problem. Should have power to the + terminal of the coil with the switch on, power to the red wire of the ign module. If still no spark, and the coil is good, it's likely the module. Call Pertronix, they will walk you through detailed troubleshooting.
Double check the timing first. Pull the #1 plug, turn the engine until you feel compression on the cylinder with your finger over the plug hole. Continue turning until the engine is at TDC. The rotor should be pointing at the #1 terminal of the distributor cap. If it is close, it is probably still in time, close enough to run. If it is pointing somewhere else, it is out of time, and if it got out of time by itself, there is something wrong, a stripped gear, sheared roll pin, etc.
Then address the spark problem. Should have power to the + terminal of the coil with the switch on, power to the red wire of the ign module. If still no spark, and the coil is good, it's likely the module. Call Pertronix, they will walk you through detailed troubleshooting.
Goose
Well-known Member
Don't people ever realize there is no way the timing can change on an engine without human intervention? Or am I missing something?
Years ago, when I was in the boat and outboard motor repair business people would bring in an outboard motor that wasn't running right. They'd almost always say it's acting like the timing is off. Even with an engine with the timing built in so there was no way it could be changed.
One guy brought in a 90 hp Johnson engine with the distributor driven by a notched belt. The guy had pulled the belt himself and drastically changed the timing. When I set the timing back according to the marks on the distributor pulley and engine block, he insisted there was absolutely no way the engine would run that way. While he was watching, I replaced the spark plugs, put a hose adapter on the lower unit for cooling, and fired it up. It purred like it was supposed to. He paid the bill and still argued that it wasn't timed right.
About 90% of the time, it was simply worn out spark plugs.
Years ago, when I was in the boat and outboard motor repair business people would bring in an outboard motor that wasn't running right. They'd almost always say it's acting like the timing is off. Even with an engine with the timing built in so there was no way it could be changed.
One guy brought in a 90 hp Johnson engine with the distributor driven by a notched belt. The guy had pulled the belt himself and drastically changed the timing. When I set the timing back according to the marks on the distributor pulley and engine block, he insisted there was absolutely no way the engine would run that way. While he was watching, I replaced the spark plugs, put a hose adapter on the lower unit for cooling, and fired it up. It purred like it was supposed to. He paid the bill and still argued that it wasn't timed right.
About 90% of the time, it was simply worn out spark plugs.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
As I said it can shear the teeth off the distributor drive gear or the pin that hold the gear in place can shear and either one will knock it out of time. That is why I said what I did so you can check timing
I agree with what others have said
concerning timing. A serious
mechanical failure is required for
timing to change. Stripped gears or
roll pins, etc... timing can be altered
a few degrees by changing points gap or
electronic counterparts, but not
enough to prevent starting unless there
is no spark present. My guess is get
looking really closely at the ignition
components. Adjustment slipped, bare
wire grounded out, faulty components,
etc.... checking static timing with
piston at tdc is close. Remember
timing is set for a few degrees before
tdc so the rotor just past the
distributor cap tower is normal.
concerning timing. A serious
mechanical failure is required for
timing to change. Stripped gears or
roll pins, etc... timing can be altered
a few degrees by changing points gap or
electronic counterparts, but not
enough to prevent starting unless there
is no spark present. My guess is get
looking really closely at the ignition
components. Adjustment slipped, bare
wire grounded out, faulty components,
etc.... checking static timing with
piston at tdc is close. Remember
timing is set for a few degrees before
tdc so the rotor just past the
distributor cap tower is normal.
I agree with what others have said
concerning timing. A serious
mechanical failure is required for
timing to change. Stripped gears or
roll pins, etc... timing can be altered
a few degrees by changing points gap or
electronic counterparts, but not
enough to prevent starting unless there
is no spark present. My guess is get
looking really closely at the ignition
components. Adjustment slipped, bare
wire grounded out, faulty components,
etc.... checking static timing with
piston at tdc is close. Remember
timing is set for a few degrees before
tdc so the rotor just past the
distributor cap tower is normal.
concerning timing. A serious
mechanical failure is required for
timing to change. Stripped gears or
roll pins, etc... timing can be altered
a few degrees by changing points gap or
electronic counterparts, but not
enough to prevent starting unless there
is no spark present. My guess is get
looking really closely at the ignition
components. Adjustment slipped, bare
wire grounded out, faulty components,
etc.... checking static timing with
piston at tdc is close. Remember
timing is set for a few degrees before
tdc so the rotor just past the
distributor cap tower is normal.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Many ways timing can change out of the clear blue. Distributor drive gear can/will strip and that cause timing to change. Or the roll pin can shear an change timing. Cam gear can strip and change timing and any of those can happen at any time. Have 340 that he distributor drive gear strip on. It was running just fine then all at once back fired and stopped running. Drive gear was stripped
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
The half moon keys for the gear and the distributor drive both can wear over time and start working back and forth. Can wear out
the key and the key way in the shaft and the key way in the gear in any and all combinations. Something I've found on a couple of
letter series machines and worth looking into.
the key and the key way in the shaft and the key way in the gear in any and all combinations. Something I've found on a couple of
letter series machines and worth looking into.
I know of a friend and good mechanic that was on his 3rd or 4th new out of the package electronic ignition none worked for more than a few
hours if at all. He was able to warranty the first few and finally got a refund on the last one. He was fed up and went back to the points
and condenser and the tractor ran good. His answer was cheap new no from the land of the almost right will fit!!
hours if at all. He was able to warranty the first few and finally got a refund on the last one. He was fed up and went back to the points
and condenser and the tractor ran good. His answer was cheap new no from the land of the almost right will fit!!
Pay attention to what Old said about distributor drive. I too have seen the little gears that are supposed to run in grease get rusty from never having new grease and
teeth wear/break off. If you have never checked the condition of or added grease to these gears it is worth checking anyway.
teeth wear/break off. If you have never checked the condition of or added grease to these gears it is worth checking anyway.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy