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Def system question

R

rrman61

Well-known Member
The lease company that supplies our company with backhoes is about to replace my cat 420F with a new one.my current machine doesn?t have a def/particulate filter;the new one will.how will this affect operation?will I have to stop working while it regens?
 
I don?t believe you will even notice the tractor doing a re-gen. My two Kubota tractors both do the re-gen , one also uses DEF. so long as the engine is reving around 1500, it will cycle . I don?t even notice the cycle happen if I am ploughing or using the round baler.
 
May not have to as the newest SCR (Selective Catslyst Reduction) systems are better on road trucks, so should be as good.
 
Not knowing the brand of equipment makes it hard to make a suggestion besides consult the operators manual. I see you mentioned your old machine is a Cat, so the below should apply.

Most of the gear does not require you to significantly change (ie stopping work) your work habits. However there are some things that will help to improve how the equipment functions. Again these will vary from brand to brand, most of my experience is with Cat equipment.
Generally, you do not want to idle the equipment for extended periods, keep it hot. Perform proper shut downs as per the operators manual. Have a good supply of DEF available, keep it clean, it also goes bad - more quickly when it?s warm (do not use galvanized containers for DEF). Make sure DEF never gets in the fuel system (accidents happen - don?t start it if they do). DEF freezes as -11C. Also try and keep the DEF level from getting low enough to trigger the low level alarms. Good luck and enjoy the new machine.
 
A customer of mine says he doesn't even notice when his Case backhoe regens. You do need to let it tell you it need DEF, though. Since DEF freezes at about 20?F, there is not a traditional floating level sensor in the tank. It uses an electronic conductivity sensor to sense level at three points in the tank. The computer needs to see the level dropping past at least one of those sensors as the DEF is used. If you continually keep the DEF topped up, it can trigger a code and idle the machine because the computer assumes that the sensors are giving a false full message.

The other thing about DEF systems is they tailor to the way the machine is used. Your DEF usage can differ from the same machine with a different operator.

DEF also breaks down in sunlight, so don't buy DEF in translucent jugs and don't leave it outside.

All in all, it's not that big a deal to deal with and you probably won't use as much as you think. My 6.7 Powerstroke customers only use about 5gal on a 7500 mile oil change.
 
The work I do on the track is time limited; as in I can?t wait 15-20 minutes for a regen.thats why I was asking
 
I got a 2019 420f2 at work last January. I?ve got a year and around 300 hours on it. You will not have to stop and you will never notice it doing a regen. I could be wrong but I believe the system on the cat burns def all the time vs. doing a regen. That being said you will burn very little def if you spend most of your time at high idle. I don?t know an exact number but I have put less that 20 gallons of def in a year. I switch to cat from case. They both have their advantages but I am happy with the cat. The only complaint I have with the machine is the cycle times don?t seem to be as fast as a case. Going from a cat to a cat you should be totally happy
 
DEF and particulate are two separate systems.

DEF will be injected constantly, no regeneration.

The particulate system will regen, or convert the soot to ash, when needed.
 
Most of these comentors do not understand this. Def and regen are not related other than they are both exhaust related. They always burn def and the amount is varied by load, so under heavy load you will burn more. But you will always use some. A regen is the system cleaning the filter and only happens when needed or told to do it. If you don't idle and run the engine under load most of the time you may only run a regen a time or two a year. My Volvo truck only did two regens that were not requested by mechanics in 550,000 miles. But I never let it idle much and the mechanics did so several a their request during repairs.
 
The new one is DOC, I am trying to sort that out, think it is another catalytic that reduces need for DPF.
 
Thanks guys the only engine I use that regens is the 2010 freight liner dump truck so my def/ particulate filter knowledge is limited
 
As long as it?s working nothing to it . When it quits working then the fun and expense starts hopefully as time goes on they will keep getting a little better with each new model .
 
DEF is cleaner to run so less re-gens. If you want to help keep it running and out of the shop, do not idle it. The more idling, the more shop time you will have(and it will not be cheep) My last Cummings ran 7 days before it re-gened(no DEF),the one I drive now has 13,000 miles(got it in Aug) and it has not re-gened yet(has DEF)
 
My construction company uses bucket trucks. We had several 2010 Ford 6.4 diesels. Bucket trucks idle all day. We had it in the shop many times because it would shut down because it needed to run hard to regen. The worker bees didn?t take the time to drive it 20 miles out of town just to regen it. Last time we took it in, Ford had an upgrade to the software. Didn?t need to regen so many times. But then the filter plugged- Havevt had an engine issue with DEF so far. But have had to replace several DEF heaters. As you may know DEF freezes.
 
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