(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

I don't get it.

S

Stephen Newell

Well-known Member
I have a 1959 Case 210B that occasionally the engine will turn over and start like it's suppose to. I did it this morning three times and the fourth time the engine wouldn't turn over. Temperature doesn't seem
to affect it either. One morning it started easily at 20 degrees. The majority of the time the engine won't even make one revolution before it stops. I've changed the battery. I also had the starter
professionally overhauled but it still drags. It's also made to where at one time you could use a hand crank and I tried to rotate it once with a big crescent wrench and had to slide a piece of pipe over the
handle to get the engine to rotate. If it did it all the time I could understand the engine being seized up but for it to do it on occasion I don't understand. Any ideas.
 
Wiring between starter, battery, and switch(es)? Can look good on the outside and be corroded on the inside, can be corrosion in connections, can work some days and not other days. Can be the big wires, can be a little wire if you have switches on that tractor.

I hate tracking down random electrical stuff, but might be worth a check.

My H was terrible at starting, one day I wiggled wires and it started like a top for a week. Somewhere in the small wires to the switch.......

Paul
 
In this case all of the connections have recently been cleaned and has a new starter solenoid. I think I have exhausted everything to do with the electrical. For some reason the engine seems tight at times since it was so difficult to turn over by hand.
 
Gas or diesel?? If diesel there very high compression so yes they can be hard to spin over by hand due to that.

But as said by the other guy you can have bad battery cable but one cannot see that with your eyes and many time even with a meter
 
When it does start is there any excess smoke out of the exhaust, or does it run on 3 for a while. If so it could be getting coolant in a cylinder making a hydro lock (cant compress coolant). Wires can be damaged internally as well. Turn the lights on and try to start it when it seems stuck. If they dim way down,
it is excess current. Hard to turn. If they don't, it is in the starter or starter solenoid. Jim Jim
 
My skid steer has a worn spot in the ring gear that the starter gets stuck in and it won?t turn until I manually turn the flywheel and free it. It only happens about every 3 months. Could it be something like that?
 
Once my old 95 GMC died while I was going about 45 mph. Engine was located up. I feared the worst. Had truck towed to locate garage.
The rotor and distributor shorted out and engine was flooded with gas. Mechanic removed plugs, cranked engine to remove gas.

Never had that happen again.
Let us know what you find is the problem.
George
 
Sorry, it's a gas tractor. Didn't think of that, in cold weather I sometimes decompress my diesel tractor to get it turning first.
 
With a gas tractor if one does not turn off the gas when parked it can get raw gas in a cylinder or 2 and that can cause a hydro lock and be hard to turn over till the gas leaks by the rings and into the oil. I'd check the oil and make sure it is not real thin and smell of gas
 
I don't believe that is the problem with mine. The engine only has about 175 hours after the ring gear was replaced. I will check it anyway.
 
For a couple of seconds there is a little extra smoke but I wouldn't call it excessive.

The headlight bulbs are burnt out but the volt meter drops as far as it will go any time you crank the engine. It's done that ever since I've had it. I have tried to crank the engine jumped off of a running vehicle and it doesn't help.
 
Bad grounding (starter to bellhousing, also), bad switch,, bad battery cables, bad battery,, does it start right up if you boost it or act the same
 
I have a Case 311 doing the same thing as yours, rebuilt the starter, new starter drive, new cables ( Thick Cables ) too. This also a gas with 6 volt system. I jump with a 12 volt battery and turns over a little better but not like it should with 12 volt.
When you find the problem please post the answer.
 
I forgot to add they can be losing ground in between the bellhousing/engine flange also if you are bolting the cable up where they did orignally,, I have found I needed to run a ground cable all the way to the starter mounting bolt to stop this before
 
You're on the right track checking with the volt meter.

Now try to narrow down the voltage drop.

Start with the meter leads stuck directly into the battery posts. If the voltage drops to near zero, most likely the battery is defective. Or with heavy cables and good connections, a locked starter can draw one down to near zero, but the cables will jump, heat up, and the starter will get hot, and make a "singing" sound.

If the reading stays high at the battery, start moving one lead at a time, systematically searching for the voltage drop. If you make it all the way to the starter, testing from the actual stud going into the case, and the case itself, then the problem is in the starter.

If everything leans toward the engine being locked, loosen the starter, see if possibly the drive gear is jamming into the flywheel gear, trying to ride over the gear teeth binding it up.
 
I think we need to get our minds away from electrical problems. Something mechanical is happening to make it turn hard on occasion. I have no suggestions on what the problem might be though.

This morning a neighbor called wanting help getting his 656 gas going. This tractor has been dependable as the day is long till today. It wouldn't crank over. After about five minutes I figured out the engine was locked. It had sat in the rain but there was a good rain cap on a good tight muffler. I pulled the plugs and #2 cylinder was full of ice. I melted the ice with a torch in the spark plug hole, blew out the water, put the plugs back in and it fired right up. Go figure! We probably never will figure out how the water got in there.
 
sorry I missed that is turns and stops then is hard to turn,, when it gets tight pull the starter and see if the engine is loose then,, maybe you have already,, if this does work I would be looking at drive and flywheel ring gear issues
 

An engine with a rope seal that I rebuilt 7-8 years ago turned very hard when I got it together so I turned it many times by hand to "wear it in" a little. It still turned hard but when I finally tried it with the starter it spun right over nicely. You could drop the pan and try loosening main caps one at a time, and then maybe rods, but myself, I like to eliminate the easiest things first so I would work on locating the voltage drop like Steve said.
 
Yes, I turn the gas off immediately after parking it. I will check to see if there is any gas in the oil or cylinders tomorrow.
 
Ah but do you have those times where maybe you did not turn the gas off. Happens to all of us once in a while. Or you also might have a bad head gasket that leaks a bit of coolant into a cylinder and hydro lock it
 
What I have done is hot wire the starter off of a running vehicle and it still drags. The starter does get hot pretty soon and I have to quit and let it cool off.
 
I was doing that before it had a starter or battery in it. I was using that to rotate the engine to top dead center to roughly set the timing.
 
Mine, the rubber boot on the gear shift has gone bad so I keep the tractor under a roof when it's not in use. Any water that might get in the engine would have to come from condensation.
 
I didn't run a ground cable but I did run jumper cables from the battery to the starter. I also ran cables to another running vehicle.
 
It acts the same whether you try to start if off the battery or another running vehicle. It also does the same hot wired directly from another running vehicle to the starter.
 
Armture can have a bad spot,every now n then it stops with 1 bad bar under a brush.
Had starter rebuilt on my 1650 oliver diesel,started good 4 times then about 1 time in 4 it dragged. New armature fixed it
 
I don't know about coolant leaking in the cylinder yet but I nearly always turn the gas off. I've left the gas on for days before and have started the tractor. It cranks longer and smokes a lot when it does start. I really don't believe I have a cylinder filling up with gas. Anyway yesterday morning I started and shut off the tractor four times and then turned the gas off. 30 minutes later I went to start it and the engine wouldn't turn over. Usually I have the most trouble starting the tractor after it has run for a while and warmed up.
 
I guess it's possible the starter wasn't rebuilt very good. The company I took it to was recommended from here and has a good reputation. I still think there is something about the engine causing it to crank hard like it would require a starter more than double the strength.
 
Where I'm at this morning is with the gas turned off I went through each of the cylinders and cranked the engine and nothing came out. I also ran a dry gun cleaning patch in each of the cylinders and there is no gas or coolant in any of the cylinders. The engine would rotate with any one of the spark plugs out. Then I put it all back together and tried to start it and the engine wouldn't rotate enough to do it. I then went back through all of the cylinders with the gun patch and there still wasn't any trace of any liquid.

All of the spark plugs looked normal.

I also put a volt meter on the battery and it started with 12.38 volts. With the engine cranking the voltage dropped to about 9.7v. Then when the engine was dragging the voltage dropped to 8.2v. It's my understanding though the starter was made to run on 6v so there should have been enough power.

The last step was I drained the oil out of the engine and it didn't have the smell of gas nor did it seem overly thin.
 
With those voltage readings I would say your battery is bad. I don't think it should drop below 12v in most situations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Woods 121 Twin Cadet get out of time
Replies
13
Views
509
Troop4Christ
T
W
Owatonna / Mustang 770 wheel loader weak hydrostatic drive
2
Replies
35
Views
1K
DoubleO7
DoubleO7
P
Ford 8N starter bendix sticking
Replies
1
Views
500
wore out
wore out
hdokes
D333 turbo retrofit?
Replies
2
Views
251
hdokes
hdokes
B
1942 Farmall H
Replies
8
Views
315
ss55
S
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top