F106 Axle and Widow Makers

modirt · Jul 20, 2019

First, lets go with the widow makers. (Firestone RH-5 rims).

Have been doing tons of searches, reading threads, etc. Lots of talk about them.......very few photos to help ID them. I assume these are them?

If so, quest starts to find replacements, as I won't even attempt to reuse a split rim and the tires are about shot anyway. If those are the WM's, they will be cut up and sent to scrap.

Seeing prices ranging from $250 up to $375 for new replacements. Plus tires. With new tires, that sounds like $500 per wheel/tire, or $2,000 for a rear set on an old axle with drum brakes.

If anyone knows a junk yard in the midwest that might have these, please name names.

Also, if you can describe these in detail (so I'll know what to tell the yard guys on the phone what I need), please do so. I only know the tires mounted on them are 7.5 x 20's, and it has 6 bolt holes.

On the other hand, I'm seeing some used rear axles off trucks on ebay for $1,000 to $1,500, some of which will include the rims and tires.

BTW, this is not going on a truck. It is a piece of self propelled farm equipment used to haul hay and does not have tags for road use. It only needs to be reliable and safe. If an axle off a military truck, like an M35 would work, I could use it.

Current axle is a Rockwell F106, which I understand may have been used on Fords of the day (early 70's), which might explain the widow maker rims.

If anyone can decode that ID tag to tell me what i have.....GVWR, etc, I'd also appreciate it.

Janicholson · Jul 20, 2019

They are the WM. I have 2 on the front of my 51 GMC, and I also am looking for wheels. Mine are 17" non dual singles with 8 on 6.5. These take
7.00 or 7.50 tires. I would use locking ring wheels or drop center style. I wish you luck. Your bolt pattern looks like a Budd wheel. Jim

DeltaRed · Jul 20, 2019

Yes,those are 'widow makers'.Find some 'lock ring' type.I see 6 bolt. I got a set of rims from a 70 something F600 truck. They bolted right on my '68 Chevy C50.So check out other brends of trucks for similar bolt pattern.Tubeless rims are also available for the modern/common 11x24 'semi' type tire

Leroy · Jul 20, 2019

Did they use a different rim For the GMC than for the Chevy? The 49 Chevy with that size 17" wheels on singles used the lock ring style with 7:00x17 Tires. Was in family from time it was 3 months old untill we got rid of it in 76 when we could no longer get brake parts and cab rusted to falling off.

SVcummins · Jul 20, 2019

The dump truck I just bought has those rims the
good thing Is we just put new tires on when it was
still at the dairy so no more miles than I put on it
they should last a long time. There must be a safe
way to do these wheels ? How could there be that
many of them out there and not every single person
that?s every worked with these trucks or rims not
have their heads blown off ? If it?s on a new Holland
bale wagon that would make sense because they
are made mostly of ford truck parts the running gear
anyway

paul · Jul 20, 2019

Yup.

I went through that a couple years ago.

You can buy some tubeless modern rims and use cheap used tires easy to find. Many folk go this route.

I found some split ring there are many military applications that use this bolt pattern. Folks are all over Craig?s list, eBay, etc selling military tires for 50-60 bucks. They
leave the rim on for free, or are scrapping the rims out. You just have to ask questions, those folk don?t realize we want the rim too, many out there just need to find the
right pattern.

I got 6 rims and army tires in good shape for $60 a piece, they might have been in Afghanistan, no rust.

Just takes a little research and questions.

Paul

paul · Jul 20, 2019

I found my source in central Iowa, the fella had a shed full of nice rims of different military rims/ tires. And a whole convoy of military vehicles in his yard, it was amazing. Nice guy.

Paul

SVcummins · Jul 20, 2019

I have a 52 Chevy that has the other style of rim not the split rim type so somewhere an ?engineer ? must have came up with a better idea he thought

modirt · Jul 20, 2019

(quoted from post at 09:04:34 07/20/19) I found my source in central Iowa, the fella had a shed full of nice rims of different military rims/ tires. And a whole convoy of military vehicles in his yard, it was amazing. Nice guy.

Paul

Paul: Do you have a name or other way to ID this guy? Name of town at least? Iowa isn't that big, but big enough to make something like that tough to find. I'd need to narrow it down a bit. It would only be 3 or 4 hours from me. Short day trip.

Also talked to a local tow truck company to find out where they take wrecked trucks, vans, etc. He gave me a couple leads to run down too.

ericlb · Jul 20, 2019

ive changed tires on these for 40 years,just did 6, but you have to disassemble them carefully, don't warp the lock ring, then take a powered wire wheel, either drill or right angle grinder and clean all 3 pieces down to the bare metal, then very carefully inspect each piece, and rust pitting, your done with that wheel don't use it, out here in the desert southwest , its possible to find trucks with excellent wheels, as long as the truck has been cared for and active, as opposed to being half buried in a fence row, after being sure all 3 pieces are in good shape, [also do not mix wheels and lock rings use the set, or none at all] paint the parts to prevent rust and reassemble, with the tire and tube and boot, this is where a educated eye is required, you must make positive that the lock ring is fully engaged and stays they way, we use heavy transport chain thru the hand holds on the wheel for safety in the absence of a tire cage, now this is your life at stake here so do not guess, if your not positive, get a professional tire man to do the job! inflate partial and then let the air back out, this allows the tube and boot to adjust themselves, then recheck the lock ring and inflate. now again this is your life here if that thing blows up, don't do it if your not sure

Leroy · Jul 20, 2019

Would not going to that semi type of tire make the diameter way too much from orognal and also probably width. Diameter possibly not clearing bed but also elimiting yse of high gear?

Jim.ME · Jul 20, 2019

modirt,

What does the other side of your rim look like? Does it have a lock ring?

modirt · Jul 20, 2019

Inner lock ring? I'm saying no.

But in looking for new information, I found this ID stamp. That ought to clear things up........ :lol: Not sure why I didn't think to look for it in the first place.

And as for replacements, this is what I have to work with.

If wider tires will clear the inside frame, I can handle wider.....better flotation anyway. Outside diameter of existing tires is 36 inches.

Gross payload could run about 20,000 # max, plus weight of beast.

Jim.ME · Jul 20, 2019

Right, no lock ring.

8.25 x 20 would be the next size up and should clear the springs, of course they will be taller. 9.00 x 20 might clear the springs as well, but will be taller still.

If you aren't concerned with road speed you should be able to match up a complete axle having newer rims. Measure up the spring mounting pad locations and width between tires needed to clear the springs. You will need to match up u-joints which might require changing the end of the drive shaft to the one from the truck you get the rear end from. You could use a two speed rear end and just lock it in low range. I believe the 6.80 is the ratio of your current rear end. This the same rig you were working on for the "stuck" clutch?

modirt · Jul 20, 2019

(quoted from post at 14:36:39 07/20/19) Right, no lock ring.

8.25 x 20 would be the next size up and should clear the springs, of course they will be taller. 9.00 x 20 might clear the springs as well, but will be taller still.

If you aren't concerned with road speed you should be able to match up a complete axle having newer rims. Measure up the spring mounting pad locations and width between tires needed to clear the springs. You will need to match up u-joints which might require changing the end of the drive shaft to the one from the truck you get the rear end from. You could use a two speed rear end and just lock it in low range. I believe the 6.80 is the ratio of your current rear end. This the same rig you were working on for the "stuck" clutch?

Yup....the same. Different axle would be OK with me. I've seen complete axle assemblies with rims and tires on ebay for +/- $1,000. About the same price as the new tires alone.

Diameter overall is 36". I'd like to keep them the same height.

Andy Martin · Jul 20, 2019

Looks like a hay monster to me.

modirt · Jul 20, 2019

My preference in this would be to find a set of more modern tubeless rims that would mount up OK to this axle and hub assembly. That rims and tires alone (easy way) or a complete axle assembly with tire and rims included.

Not sure what tire size modern tubeless would be, but would assume it would be on a 22.5" tubeless rim. So needing advice on what size that would be. I can find all kinds of conversion charts for car tires, but not for tires of this size.

(and yes, this is for a hay monster)

Jim.ME · Jul 20, 2019

8.25-20, which would be next up from your 7.50-20s are 38 - 38.5" diameter. 9.00s go to 40"+ diameter.

If you want to stay about the same height but go to tubeless, the 255 series 22.5s may be close on the 36" diameter. I think you may want to be looking at 19.5's and a rear axle from a low profile truck if you want more smaller diameter options.

Jim.ME · Jul 20, 2019

This chart has some diameters you can compare. It is for one tire but diameters for different tires of the same size should be close.

Jim.ME · Jul 20, 2019

Wrong button. Here's the chart.

leroy in ne · Jul 20, 2019

FYI only, may have errors as I measured quickly in weed patch. Dodge D-600 was military, 900-20's 6 bolt with 8 3/4 inch bolt pattern and 6 1/2 inch center hole. Measured
total diameter it looks like 37 inches plus with worn tire. I believe D-500 used 8.25-20 tires. You may have to watch size of mounting stud. These are lock ring rims.
This is for info to possibly have another truck to ask about in salvage yards ect. If all works out I'll haul my old truck to scrap next winter when prices come up some.
I'm probably to far away for you to look as I'm in southeast Nebraska. Has 2 speed dif.

caterpillar guy · Jul 20, 2019

Just bolt the wheel on the hub so the side that is loose will go towards the springs and blow them up. The most danger is in the partial aired up stage. Once the pieces have tension on them they pretty much are set.
If you were closer I would mount tires for you with out hesitation. I would check the condition of the wheels though before mounting. I do that on all wheels I reuse. Even tubeless semi wheels will wear the top of the lip next to the bead down with time. You could just cut the center out of the wheels and weld into a tubeless rim then bolt on. 2.55-70 22.5 tires would be close to your 36 inches you want. They would be most likely 14 ply tire or load range H I have some I would give you if you were closer. They would be a trailer tire with a steer type tread.

modirt · Jul 21, 2019

(quoted from post at 16:37:13 07/20/19) FYI only, may have errors as I measured quickly in weed patch. Dodge D-600 was military, 900-20's 6 bolt with 8 3/4 inch bolt pattern and 6 1/2 inch center hole. Measured
total diameter it looks like 37 inches plus with worn tire. I believe D-500 used 8.25-20 tires. You may have to watch size of mounting stud. These are lock ring rims.
This is for info to possibly have another truck to ask about in salvage yards ect. If all works out I'll haul my old truck to scrap next winter when prices come up some.
I'm probably to far away for you to look as I'm in southeast Nebraska. Has 2 speed dif.

Maybe not as far out of bounds as you might think. I'm driving to Omaha today.

If those rims would bolt up on my hubs, and they are going to scrap anyway, you may have what I'm looking for.

I'm also pretty certain there are 100 such rims within 50 miles of me..sitting in fencerows and in old barns....old junk yards.....on non running vehicle destined for scrap......but how to find them. Craigslist?

leroy in ne · Jul 21, 2019

modirt: You are welcome to look. E mail is open. I'm about 35 miles north of Kansas and 35 miles west of Missouri at Sterling, NE. Leroy

modirt · Jul 21, 2019

(quoted from post at 06:53:25 07/21/19) modirt: You are welcome to look. E mail is open. I'm about 35 miles north of Kansas and 35 miles west of Missouri at Sterling, NE. Leroy

Leroy:

Thanks for the offer. Time is tight, so won't be this trip, but if nothing turns up locally in the coming months, I may be in touch. I need to verify my bolt pattern to make sure they will fit.

What I have will get me by.....for now......but by next season, hope to have different tires in place.

F106 Axle and Widow Makers

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