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What bugs me the most:

B

Brent Zappe

Member
What bugs me the most is when I find people who think they have done a Generator system over to an Alternator system. When I buy another old tractor and drag it home I run into surprises. The command thing I usually find is that most people will only hook up one wire from the Alternator. Like always just the one that states Bat. Need less to say's these Delco-Remy 10-SI need more than just that. I often wonder or ask myself why people change the charging system on these tractors. Most people say they want 12 volts? Okay But did you know they also made a 12 volt Generator and those system do exist? Yes I know it takes more know age to do this type of work right ( I say). Like always when I buy some old tractor what do I find the easy way to rewire up. Just my words on things that really bug me.
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If someone buys the right alt. or installs the right built in voltage regulator the 10 si can be made a truly 1 wire system.
 
I am not understanding your post, there is a right way or wrong way on anything.

I prefer the 3 wire alternators so I can put a charge light on them.
 
You do make a very good point. But the Alternator system on a car and a tractor gauge that reads the battery and charging system some time require all three hook ups. I know this sound strange but some times the one wire is not enough for it to do the job.
 
The problem with trying to keep a generator working, you can't buy a decent regulator!

Back in the day, the regulators were carefully made to work with a specific generator, matched to the amperage output and polarity by the alloys used on the contacts.

Today they are fit all generic junk that have a very short life, if it works at all.

I'm all for originality, but if it becomes impractical to keep the machine running, best do what needs to be done.
 
Yes I agree with you on this. Most tractors I have restored have a gauge that tells you the battery is charging. Like you say to have a light on it this will tell you that the system is working. I just simple thought of posting this because I find many different wire up on tractors that are done wrong.
 
What you say is very True. That is why we change over to the Alt. system style. It is fast and easy to do so and it some how makes sense because they are easy to change out. For an example I can remember when doing a Generator system you had to change out the Generator with the voltage Regulator because they had to match up on the system. They alt. has a built in Voltage reg. in it and there for only one price tag on it. Making the charging system an easy fix.
 
I agree with you on the regulators. I put a 12 volt generator on my 300U to keep it closer to looking original and I have to replace the regulator about every 3 years. It does sit outside all the time. The alternator conversion I put on my H and M lasted about 25 years with only an occasional battery change.
 
My 1550 was originally alternator but the early Delco that used a separate regulator. PO had changed to a 10SI and the reg was removed. When I looked at it he had to jump it and said if used nearly every day is was OK. Battery looked to be in bad shape so I put a new one on and it sat till spring when I started working on other things. When I finally tried to start it the battery was stone cold dead so I started researching and found a 50 milliamp draw with the key off. PO had only one wire from the diodes to the output stud, correct, but the wire from the charge light that should have gone to the second diode terminal was connected to the output terminal. The light never glowed but it was enough to drain the battery.
 
I'm with you brent my 39 and 47 fords work just fine I doubt these alt. conversions will be around in 80 years
 
One reason some convert to 12V and an alternator is so they can run bigger lights, I'm retired so I can get all my work done in the daytime! We have a 48 Farmall C that is all original 6 V and everything works just fine.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:02 07/15/19) I'm with you brent my 39 and 47 fords work just fine I doubt these alt. conversions will be around in 80 years
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And I'll tell you you are dead wrong. And it has to do with demand. 6 volt is dead. Hasn't been used on a new piece of equipment or vehicle sense the very early 60's. Lot of battery chargers out there don't even have a setting for 6 volt anymore. Last one I bought (200 plus dollars) on wheels with a 200 amp boost? No 6 volt setting. And that was 10 years ago. Look at the prices of 6 volt batteries? They have gone up too. Way out of proportion. They have become a specialty item. Regulators in general have a bad reputation today. They don't sell enough to make it worth building a decent one. OK I know how to polarize a generator? So what? No one cares and no one is impressed. Same thing with knowing how to change a set of points. No one is impressed and no one cares. While you are messing around with that stuff that young guy is writing a computer program. I'm more impressed with that. Heck NASA taught a chimp how to fly a rocket with a few lemon drops. Give that chimp a dwell meter or feeler gauge, a set of points and a pack of lifesavers.

What's going to kill 6 volt altogether is total lack of demand. Why use a high maintenance generator system when one can easily convert to a low maintenance alternator system that can use a cheaper battery too? The day the last 6 volt battery comes off the line? I'll dance in the streets!

I like my old tractors. But I want to work them, not work on them. I have other things to do with my time. Fishing, hunting, shooting, reloading, boating ECT.

Rick
 
My std. ammeters don't read high enough for an SI10 alternator. Bat. voltage is a much better indicator of charging system and bat condition in general.-------Loren
 
Just factor the cost and labor to rework the charging system into the price of any older used tractor, much like planning $1000 for some sore of unknown repairs on any older used vehicle you buy. The few that don't need it will be a pleasant surprise, and you won't be disappointed by the majority that do need it.
 
I agree a original generator/ regulator is what I prefer if possible. What bugs me is most of the conversions are just slapped on.
Alternator not lined up, sticking way out, wires hanging all over, old wiring not removed, and most not working either.
 
7 tractors all 6v all start and run just fine just use the right parts not Walmart junk [battery cables for one] 12v cables DO NOT WORK ON 6V
 
If 6 Volt and 12 volt generator systems were as good as 12 Volt alternators they still be putting them on things of course they haven't for years.I've replaced 6V and 12V generators with
Delco 1 wire alternators on 10 tractors and they all work great would never go back to the original stuff they replaced.I can buy a good 12V 1 wire alternator cheaper than
most junk regulators sold these days.
 
What is killing the generators and points is people thinking like you are. I have had MORE problems with alternators than I ever had with generators and also more problems wih the non points system than I ever had with points. And with people like you saying they don't want the good systems they just listen to people like you, not the ones that want the good stuff.
 
Well the way I look at the whole thing is this ..... can you imagine how stressed Brent would be if he ran into a real bonafide thing to get bugged about?
 
The two 6v tractors I have start just fine on 6 volts but I don't use them much in the winter. The Oliver 88 was 6 but in my opinion it's too big of a tractor for 6v so I switched it to 12 with a generator. I am not against using an alternator. I'm just too minded toward original looks. Last winter an SC Case followed me home. It is converted to 12 with an alternator and it will stay this way. The tractor will not be painted so I am not interested in good looks this time.
 
(quoted from post at 09:40:27 07/15/19) [b:e79c44afb9]The day the last 6 volt battery comes off the line? I'll dance in the streets[/b:e79c44afb9]


I do not see that happening anytime in the near future mostly because of deep cell applications.
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LOL I didn't say it was going to happen soon. But the day will come. And when I say 6 volt I'm not talking about the deep cycle. I'm talking regular automotive.

And who care about how may hits you got. In a rural farming area I walked into a parts store to buy a larger roll around battery charger . The only ones in stock that charged 6 volt were little cheap things. I wanted something decent. Everything they had it stock that was larger and had a decent boost were all 12 volt only. That was fine with me. I'd already converted all of my 6 volt stuff. And when do I convert? As soon as I buy something that's 6 volt. Send all that 6 volt junk to the crusher right away too.

What amuses me is the claim about how reliable a generator is over an alternator. I remember back in the late 60's and through most of the 70's when there were still a lot of service stations. And every one at a minimum had a box of brushes, some bushings and a hand crank commentator lathe. Plus most had a small selection of voltage regulators too (that's when the average new car buyer traded every 2 years). Now repair shops don't carry anything like that and alternators last 150,000 miles or so without an issue. Heck back in the genny days most gas engines were getting close to a 2nd engine rebuild by 150,000. :lol: :lol:

Rick
 
Times change, alternators are on every new car and tractor so besides nostalgia you have to realize they have sine advantages obviously. And many are in fact designed to use with one wire. I have over a half dozen machines here with one wire alternator that work great. Not sure why you are so against them
 
Well, that means in 40 more years, YOU will be wrong. The '51 M out in the shop had a 12V alternator installed in the late 1970's. Charging system has performed great since then.
Also, that M was delivered brand new, just a few days out of the Farmall Plant on Dec. 23, 1951. On Christmas day it was cold, below Zero, and only cranked over a couple times. Dad had to start the '47 M to grind cattle feed. Since that First No Start that '51 M has had M&W live hyd, and Charlynn PS added, cranks even harder now, add in the 4 inch high compression M&W Add Power pistons and NO WAY would the typical 1955 vintage 6v battery start that tractor. But the 1000 Cold Cranking Amp 12V spins it pretty good.

I'm agreeing with Old Tanker, they can't kill off 6v battery and charging systems soon enough. The 6v starters work great on 12V.
 
Hey DR Evil: little do you know when I restored my 1951 Farmall M cotton picker I had put a 12 volt Generator system on it. The reason was because I had rebuilt the engine with high compression in it and it needed a 12 volt system to turn it over. What was a 248 CID engine is Now a 250 Cid 4 cylinder gasoline engine. It was fat to rewire and easy to do. Still kept the Magneto on the same engine. reason why is because the magnets has it own power for the spark.
 
When I do a tractor restoration over here I rewire the whole tractor up. When I do this I usually put the Alt. in the tractor because it is easier to trouble shoot and fix than the old system. Why a course I do have to change the amp meter over to volts but in to days world of a wide source of tractor reproduction I can find one that look pretty close to the one that should be in the tractor. The key is when changing over the system try your beat to wire it up like it should be. I find so many tractors do the stupid way and then they call me up and want me to fix it so it does what it is to be doing.
 
The one wire Alt. is a great thing yes that is true. I do know this because I have one on a 1953 willy's Jeep. It does it job a 14 volts on the battery when in running mode and when all off road light are on down to 11 volts. Still it charging and keeping the battery. yes A course it is a Delco-Remy. Sad to say it is not an old 10-SI Delco-Remy No it is a newer designed unit.
 
Your statement is true: I will tell you why back in the 60's most diesel engines had to 6 volt batteries tied together to make up a 12 volt system. The reason was because they needed the Amperage out of those batteries for turning those engines around to get them started. It was not the voltage but the amperage out of those batteries.
 
These three book where from my college automotive school I took in Electrical system on cars, semi trucks and heavy equipment. Wow I guess I am showing my age (L.O.L). Back in they year of 1980 I was in deep studies on smog devices, Auto repairs and Electrical systems. I never made in a job as a mechanic but instead kept it as a hobby of love. that is why I referee to all my books and shop manuals because I do find things that are wrong on the internet. Yes I do full restoration work on Equipment and some times I do what I call in all out rewiring the Equipment because the old stuff is no longer good to use. I just get tired of these people who do what I call a fast job and need a person like me to fix there mistakes. That is what really bugs me is when they tell me they are right but the system does not do what they want it to do.
 
(quoted from post at 20:21:29 07/15/19) These three book where from my college automotive school I took in Electrical system on cars, semi trucks and heavy equipment. Wow I guess I am showing my age (L.O.L). Back in they year of 1980 I was in deep studies on smog devices, Auto repairs and Electrical systems. I never made in a job as a mechanic but instead kept it as a hobby of love. that is why I referee to all my books and shop manuals because I do find things that are wrong on the internet. Yes I do full restoration work on Equipment and some times I do what I call in all out rewiring the Equipment because the old stuff is no longer good to use. I just get tired of these people who do what I call a fast job and need a person like me to fix there mistakes. That is what really bugs me is when they tell me they are right but the system does not do what they want it to do.
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Funny, I love it when someone want's me to fix what they messed up. 1: I take my sweat time and they know that before I take the job. 2: I charge accordingly.

Rick
 
If you'd of fought the old generator 6 volt systems on tractors back in the day you were using to make a living you wouldn't be so fond of them now.They were a pain and seemed like
they always needed attention.An alternator is the one biggest update a person that is going to use an old tractor can make.Makes the tractor start great,usually trouble free and then
some decent lights can be added.
 
Not sure how you got 250 CID in an M, stock bore is 3-7/8", only over-size anymore is 4" for 264 CID. By 1951 IH was supplying distributors instead of magnetos, so your mag was an option. Honestly, the mag is better for starting, when cranking with 12v your ignition with distributor is only getting 9-10 volts. With 6v system probably only getting 4 volts when starting. With mag you get same strong spark every time.
I get tired of these experts bragging about "My Farmall A starts fine on 6 volts." Add a live hyd pump, power steering pump, cold thick oil, and oversize high compression pistons in an engine over twice the displacement. Hey, come on over and I'll let you hand crank the beast over next time it's Below Zero! IH didn't make too many Farmall 400's before they switched to 12 volts. They used 12 volts on diesel and LP tractors.
I'm happy these guy's tractors start on 6 volt, but still have to agree with Old Tanker that the day of the 6 volt is long gone. A 12 generator cures a hard start condition but you still have the electro-mechanical voltage regulator which is prone to failure. I've owned dozens of cars and trucks, tractors, lawn mowers, and most have had alternators, drove hundreds of trucks over the years, and only had a hand full of alternators fail on me. Most common failure is a diode failing and it stops charging. Did have a bearing lock up and alternator stop turning on the wife's car one night, lights dimmed and belt started screeching. Normally takes over 200,000 miles before one fails.
 
I see the parallels. But now I wonder if there is another "view" between Classic and Modern as I have a generator and 12 volts !!
 
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