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USA going green

J

john in la

Well-known Member
Location
What part of in La do you not understand
There was talk on here a few days ago about places doing away with plastic straws and replacing them with paper straws.
Now I see Igloo is not making Styrofoam coolers any more and has replaced it with a reusable cooler made of paper and a binder.
Now all we need to do is get serious about recycling and growing trees that reach maturity faster.
Then we will be able to go full circle and have people once again complaining about the paper mill stench that fills their neighborhood.



cvphoto27249.png
 
they all ready make hybrid trees I planted 100 Doug fir 10 years ago and they are 30 ft tall now, average 3 ft a year , maybe it would be more important if they clean up the homeless / drug problems and the diseases that are now back in this country from the 1800s
 
I think it's all designed to send jobs to China. I knew a guy that mortgaged his house to put money into his business of making blow film to put around soft drink cases. Then the greenies came along and made the drink companies quit using the blow film so this guy was put out of business overnight. He just walked off and left his business with all the equipment. He didn't even bother to shut the doors. The banks had a lien on everything.
 
John, before you start going on about recycling do some in depth research into to it. DO NOT research it with some earth website. They are going to tell you what they want you to hear.

But recycling batteries/paper/plastic is not as ecologically friendly as it sounds. If fact some of the processes involved are quite potentially hazardous. Why do you think most plastic recycling is done outside of the US and Canada? We have been shipping plastics to China and such. The reason it's so important now is that China has stopped taking all that plastic.

Fast growing trees? Had a couple of places try that here. Once harvested and the stumps were pulled out they have not been replanted into trees. Guess that's working out well. I love how the tree huggers keep telling us that . "Fast growing trees" and yet they have failed to tell us WHICH ONES! Or to develop one. The guys that planted the pulp wood trees here put em in and watched em grow 15 years. Must not have been very profitable.

We have[b:87077c83d0] ome[/b:87077c83d0] of the lowest pollution levels in the world per person. All this green nonsense and carbon tax stuff has absolutely NOTHING to do with pollution or anything else environmentally related. It has everything to do with the "one world" movement. You can research that too.

And don't get me wrong. I'm good with them getting rid of plastic bags and straws. But please don't take a leak down my back and try to tell me it's rain.

Rick
 
I agree recycling plastic is not as green friendly as it
sounds. Making things from some paper type
products, that can be composted, will be greener.
And we don?t necessarily need fast growing trees to
make these paper type products. Grasses like
Switch Grass and hemp and even corn or soybean
straw can be turned into paper products. It is my
thought that at of this time, the Big Oil is making a
fortune turning the left over parts of the crude oil,
after the gasoline and diesel are refined, into
making plastic. So there will be push back from Big
Oil on any type of alternative to their products.
Paper products rot away, while plastic stuff piles up.
And farmers could benefit from growing alternative
crops, rather than wheat, corn , soy rotations.
 
(quoted from post at 06:37:41 06/23/19) I agree recycling plastic is not as green friendly as it
sounds. Making things from some paper type
products, that can be composted, will be greener.
And we don?t necessarily need fast growing trees to
make these paper type products. Grasses like
Switch Grass and hemp and even corn or soybean
straw can be turned into paper products. It is my
thought that at of this time, the Big Oil is making a
fortune turning the left over parts of the crude oil,
after the gasoline and diesel are refined, into
making plastic. So there will be push back from Big
Oil on any type of alternative to their products.
Paper products rot away, while plastic stuff piles up.
And farmers could benefit from growing alternative
crops, rather than wheat, corn , soy rotations.
Click to expand...

Bruce, composting isn't going to cut it. Look at the chemicals that are in paper.

Rick
 
Another environmental dilemma, packaging and similar products. Also takes crude oil to make plastic. It would be great to find better alternatives, seeing what really happens in regards to recycling. It's misnomer when you find out, how it really works.

Applying common sense, removing the political and lobbying side of it, what are the real options ?

33 years back, I worked for a recycling plant, we processed aluminum cans into biscuits that were made in to large cubes that were then banded together, baled plastics and cardboard, and crushed glass. Just the beginning of the process, I always wondered what the next step was for the plastic bottles.

It's a nice though to be respectful of our environment, just so complicated to change or find technology that reduces the impact.


One of the things similar that I have come to believe is a bunch of BS is LEED & green buildings. I've had a few projects that require us to submit LEED paperwork, it's another nice thought, but in reality meeting the requirements, a lot of it can be made up, not true or no way to verify everything. Some of it just cannot be complied with, so the rating or whatever the end result is when the building is completed, is in fact just not true. The premise of this is wonderful, but some of it is either impractical or we are just nowhere near being able to really do at this time.
 
(quoted from post at 06:50:09 06/23/19) Rick I think you guys missed the point.
Read the last line again.
Click to expand...

:lol: Yer right, I did miss that!

But I get so tired of folks pushing this green agenda without any knowledge to back them up except what they want to hear......like environmental studies teachers. Most of them followed that career path because they really believe in what they are doing. Then they immerse themselves in lies and deceit all the while justifying it with a hoped end result. And then they push it too far.

Rick
 

Which smells worse? A paper mill, or a plastics manufacturing factory? Which smells worse when it burns, paper? Or plastic?
 
There is or was a company in NEB that made biodegradable plastic out of corn. It could and for some companies has replaced non degradable plastic made from crude. It doesn't take 400 yrs to decompose. Before we throw plastic under the bus we should take a look at bio plastics derived from corn. And possibly containers and grocery sacks can be made from industrial hemp now that it is legal to grow.
 
I think your humor was lost on them John.
Mentioning eco this or enviro that or worst of all global warming here always brings out the swivel eyed loons.
 
Wind power? Lotta money and they are installing them within eighth mile of my house.wind dont blow here that much.85 feet up it dont either.climbed the top of the concrete stave silos nuff to know that.
They say 36 truckloads concrete for each tower.where that soil go and when it fails who pays cleanup? We know.we just finished installing scrubbers on coal power generator plants.now they shut them down for wind and solar power? When the whole country is covered with panels and towers i suppose we can import substandard chinese food?
 
LEED is a clever money grab that the gubberment goes for because tax payers are footing the bill and don?t know they are. Smart owners incorporate the money saving ideas but skip the expensive paperwork and plaque.
 
Go to where most of it starts,, Fast food and convenience store items.. If more meals were made and served in the home, where you would actually set down with your family,,eat off of glass wear, and wash it to re-use..this would set a lot of the issues we are dealing with into a positive direction....returning to family values, saving money,, and much less waste..
 
Bingo, Bruce.

Paper was once made from hemp but FDR put a stop to that to benefit his crony capitalists.

Might be a good time to undo some of FDR's works.

Dean
 
I well remember the hysteria in the late 1970s about the "coming ice age."

Though unknown to the hysterical at the time, that prediction can be taken to the bank.

Dean
 
It will make no difference whether we all drive Suburbans or Prii, though we might be able to delay it a bit if we believe the greenies and drive Suburbans.

Gotta love it.

Dean
 
I agree with Tim on this, consuming food at home produces much less waste. I believe that most of the wood trim products are made from poplar, which is fast growing, same could be done to container products.

It is a good thing to get rid of disposable plastic containers and straws, because people are pigs and do not clean up after themselves.
 
I would like to see the paper industry come back big time, lot of good jobs for people who don't have much education.
 
I don't see American families with two working parents to pay bills going back to eating prepared meals on glass plates and silverware. On average Americans eat out 18 times per month and that will likely increase in the future, daily schedules sometimes don't allow for home prepared meals. Fast food is not going away especially for younger people. We will have to have bio-degradable containers, trays, straws, grocery bags and such to sustain this trend of eating out or carry out.
 
grizz02 You sure hit that on the head. The majority of the modern day "green" movement is all about controlling people not pollution. Just another way for the abundant left to control those that will not elect them. Crazy California passes some wako law and then the rest of country is expected to follow along.
 
One must realize something about a lot of our Greenies- They are NOT telling us what THEY will give up for the sake of the planet- They are telling us what WE will have to give up.
Personally, I might have a problem with trying to haul a load of 2X4s on my bicycle.
If you want people to follow your agenda, you must set an example. Jet-setting billionaire global warming salesmen don't really cut it. unc
 
(quoted from post at 10:27:06 06/23/19) There is or was a company in NEB that made biodegradable plastic out of corn. It could and for some companies has replaced non degradable plastic made from crude. It doesn't take 400 yrs to decompose. Before we throw plastic under the bus we should take a look at bio plastics derived from corn. And possibly containers and grocery sacks can be made from industrial hemp now that it is legal to grow.
Click to expand...

What takes 400 years to decompose? And how do you know??
 
(quoted from post at 16:27:11 06/23/19) Go to where most of it starts,, Fast food and convenience store items.. If more meals were made and served in the home, where you would actually set down with your family,,eat off of glass wear, and wash it to re-use..this would set a lot of the issues we are dealing with into a positive direction....returning to family values, saving money,, and much less waste..
Click to expand...
I mostly agree that what you are saying is correct. So, what do you suggest for a solution?
 
The city of Lexington Kentucky will no longer accept paper for recycling. The serviced over 12 counties at one time. They stated that there was no market for it. They also stated that many cities across the country have abandoned recycling completely.

In 2018 it cost Lexington Ky $2.6 million to recycle and made $2.1 million on the sale of the recycled goods. Loss of $500,000 Not good business.
 

"Smart owners incorporate the money saving ideas but skip the expensive paperwork and plaque."

That is about the gist of it and by far the tangible purpose.

Always made sense to reduce operating costs with the use of the latest or most cost effective technology, don't need a certificate, or plaque to meet that goal.

There is the gathering of information from suppliers, takes time, some back and forth etc. Add to office labor cost for a given job on our end. Some products we deal with, are not friendly to the LEED criteria. Some we buy and manufacture ourselves, are not compatible with LEED, the things we furnish and install are predominantly a niche product, in a very specific market. Something that makes more sense to just make exempt.

The outfit that handles the LEED portion of the project is seemingly a pain about things like mentioned above, difficult or impossible to comply kinds of things. Kind of glad we don't deal with it much overall on most of our jobs, hope that does not change.
 
(quoted from post at 08:53:25 06/23/19) I agree with Tim on this, consuming food at home produces much less waste. I believe that most of the wood trim products are made from poplar, which is fast growing, same could be done to container products.

It is a good thing to get rid of disposable plastic containers and straws, because people are pigs and do not clean up after themselves.
Click to expand...

Fast growing poplar isn't that fast. 12-20 years plant to harvest depending on growing season. So if we need paper in 2 years it ain't gonna happen. Hemp on the other hand which makes great pulp for paper is months.

Rick'
 
Paper and plastic are both toxic to burn. The ink alone on packaging is very toxic. Why? How much human health and environment health is
sacrificed for business and money?
 
Good reply. I totally agree. When we screw up this planet from corporate greed and people just not caring about the environment, all the money in the world means nothing.....
 
My problem with the whole 'green' ecological movement has already been mentioned, but bears repeating.

Those who advance a program of green, and limited consumption, recycling, and significant lifestyle changes for Americans, are not living the life they espouse. China, France, Brazil, etc all want the US to cut back on greenhouse gasses. Want us to slow use of coal, oil, etc. But - they are not advancing for their own people ahd country the same as they tell us to change.

Further, for all those who are telling us what to do, they have no interest in how it affects our lifestyle. All they care about is managing and manipulating people, and getting more power to control our lives through energy restriction.

From an aviation perspective, the fedguv has agreed to stop the use of 100LL(Low Lead) avgas since about 1986. The deadline keeps being pushed back because there are NO alternatives that are safe, reliable, and produce the same power as leaded avgas, burned in a slow turning piston plane. The greenies keep getting wins in court against the fedguv vs avgas, but the fedguv keeps changing the rules, and then the greenies go back to court again. We should not be burning leaded avgas in planes. It's not a good thing, but there's nothing we can use to replace it. Some day, some court is going to outlaw leaded avgas, and it will ground thousands of planes until a replacement is derived.
 
Going green may produce many jobs and science jobe figuring how to do that economically.


I remember when they said computers would put everyone out of work, instead computers have given us millions of good paying jobs, and still more to come.
 
Ha on that paper mill stench. I grew up in Pasadena, Texas and North of town, on the Houston Ship channel was Champion Paper and Fiber company which took E. Texas Pine Trees and ground them into paper. No doubt in what you say......every year, in the fall when it started getting cooler and the winds started coming from the North, we signaled fall by the papermill stench. Was just part of growing up.

I recall when Igloo first came on the market. Only cooler at the time that kept ice over the whole weekend when on an outing. We'll see how the greenies like their paper coolers!!!!!
 
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